What's the latest....?

[Caballus]

Ford knows the car can perform at the track, and it will perform so well that without coolers most owners will grenade the transmission. Ford has built in a safeguard to PREVENT people from blowing up their cars. This is not because they were unaware of the performance ability of the car. Ford recommends you add coolers for sustained track use, and until you do so the company is not going to let you damage your car.

Not sure where that inside knowledge comes from, but I don't believe it. The caveat about coolers only appears in the owners manual (July 2015). Also, it does not speak of "sustained track use." It speaks of sustained high speeds or track use (i.e., any track use). It's not mentioned anyplace else, nor were coolers made available. So, for me, that conclusion is unsupported by fact or logic. I find Bossing's observation more appropriate:

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46493&page=3

Everyone that bought a tech pack planned to upgrade the coolers later, but preferred more street ameneties. That is exactly what you get, and you still need to spend money on cooling upgrades that we all planned to do anyway.

Everyone? Again, that is based on what? Does that include Hack who has experienced the problem and says differently? I certainly didn't plan to get coolers later either. Begs the question whether the minority is those who planned on buying coolers or those who believed for limited (i.e., single session) track use coolers would not be necessary. Again, the 'recommendation' was placed into the owners manual (in July) and found nowhere in advertising or any "buyers manual." Despite the marketing blitz, should buyers have inferred from the fact that 2 of 4 versions have coolers that coolers are required for the "the most track capable Mustang ever" to handle a single track session? Not qualified to answer what someone should have inferred, nor is anyone else. Can only read facts.

Ford is already working on a solution, but somehow that is not good enough. You may actually own your car physically for 5-6 months before there is a viable option that we all planned to purchase anyway. Which will still cost the same or less than having the option to combine the tech/track pack at the dealer. Not to mention may actually perform better than stock since the aftermarket is on board also.

I hope that is true, though I have talked to FP and gotten a party line, which includes "look to the aftermarket for a solution." As it stands, Ford has done nothing to officially substantiate the claim, and there is no word on how it will be implemented.

When you drive the car on the steet like you will 98% of the time you won't shed a tear

Not sure where 98% came from. Previous post had it between 10 and 20%. Either way, I paid for 100% of advertised performance, not 80, 90, or 98%. I am in a unique position to push it to its limits off the track, and push to my limits on the track. But even if I were not, that is irrelevant. The car was advertised and sold based on a given capability, regardless to how the majority of consumers will (presumably) use it.

Bottom line, I respect your point of view, but do not share it. I am sure I will appreciate the car when I fire it up. But I am also sure that I will be completely disappointed if it goes into limp mode when I take it for a relatively short session on the track or a relatively routine "sustained high speed" run on the Autobahn. I would prefer Ford ensure the car is capable of performing as they vigorously advertised prior to me having that experience, as I am a customer, not part of their engineering staff.

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[50 Deep]

bullshit, quit carrying fords water, their own press kit for christ sake said you could take the cars to the track, a 14 min session max is completely ridiculous. this shouldn't even be a debate but the fanboys just cant stand to admit their favorite blue logo makes mistakes. Jesus you bore me. The same few continue to come in state their opinion and shit on every thread give it a rest. We get it you think we are dumb. I think many of you cant see past your blue tinted sunglasses.

I'm not carrying fords water, I just don't misplace blame for decisions that I myself made. Nobody here had a tech pack shoved down their throat or was told a track pack was not available.

The difference is that many owners knew before buying the car that it would not see the track without coolers, and I might not be able to run for long otherwise. I had my reality check before I purchased the car. I also have the patience to wait for proper coolers to be developed. 7-8 months is not that long of a time for them to be created. Not to mention weather is only cooperative with frequent racing for 5-6 months depending on where you live. And again, if you can't live without not being on the track every weekend, then you should have gotten a track package car.

The blasphemy is that people who actually have a tech pack car are not even the ones doing the majority of the complaining. Comparing this car to a GT is not the same. The GT cannot do what this car does, and does not place the same amount of stress on the components. Stop being upset because Ford won't let you grenade your car until you make adequate upgrades. If your truly that upset with your tech pack then sell it so someone else can live the dream

 

[MAV]

I've stayed out of this, but my lack of better judgment is getting the best of me, and I have to say a few things:

#1 Despite any advertisement to the contrary, Ford DOES NOT RECOMMEND racing this vehicle (p. 46, GT350 Owner's Manual Supplement). In fact, they imply that if the owner intends to use the vehicle "for track use, and the loss of warranty coverage is not a concern", blah blah blah... They're telling you they won't honor the warranty under track use. They're also ensuring they're not liable for any problems you have with it related to track use. This applies to base, tech, track, and R models.

#2 Marketing is just that - marketing. It's not gospel. Hell, most of the time it isn't even factual. Nobody is going to win a lawsuit against Ford for marketing this car as "the most track capable Mustang ever". Because with the right options, it is. Ford could just as easily advertise the new F150 as "the most mud capable F150 ever", but if you buy a 2WD and get it stuck, it wouldn't be fair to complain that it's not capable in mud.

#3 It CLEARLY states on page 25 of the Supplement that "your vehicle is capable of sustained high speeds and track day driving IF EQUIPPED WITH POWERTRAIN COOLERS (Track, R model)." Is there anything about this declaration that is misleading or confusing? Why should Ford be held accountable for GT350s that are NOT EQUIPPED with coolers not properly functioning in environments that it doesn't recommend in the first place?

While I am a fan and a loyalist, I'm not a Ford apologist, and a quick search of some of my previous statements on warranty coverage will tell you that it bothers me greatly that Ford advertised this car as a "race car" and yet clearly states that using the car in a manner in which it was advertised will result in the loss of warranty coverage. Again, marketing is the problem. It's basically bullshit. Everywhere. Every time.

 

[50 Deep]

[MENTION=21788]Tank[/MENTION] [MENTION=21162]Caballus[/MENTION] @sprintmax [MENTION=20919]superman07[/MENTION]

I hope you guys realize that personally I would have also liked to have the coolers and tech pack all together. It truly does make more sense as a package. But it also would have raised the price of the car. I am with you in wanting them to be developed quickly, but I also don't blame Ford for my own decision. That is where our opinions differ.

Someone made mention of me over generalizing. In that case lets eliminate the extra chatter and allow only tech pack owners that have their vehicle, or have experienced limp mode chime in. I can with relative certainty say that this thread will become real quiet, real fast.

 

[macinehead]

I haven't taken delivery of my tech pack yet, and may not. It's due first week of April. My decision will not be based on it going into limp mode at the track, because I don't track. My decision will be based on two things 1) the potential resale value on these cars will be negatively impacted based on the fact that they will, or can go into limp mode, no coolers. I know if I were looking for a used one in a year or so I would not buy a 15 or 16 tech or base. Would you? I would want the coolers. 2) More importantly I'm concerned that even if the car never goes into limp mode is the trans and/or diff running hotter than necessary which could effect longevity of the unit. Excessive heat does damage over time. I think I saw in another thread that the cars with coolers run way cooler than the others. Yes I know there is a safeguard in place (limp mode) to keep you from blowing up the trans. Its the higher temps over time that concerns me.

 

[Tank]

[MENTION=21788]Tank[/MENTION] [MENTION=21162]Caballus[/MENTION] @sprintmax [MENTION=20919]superman07[/MENTION]

I hope you guys realize that personally I would have also liked to have the coolers and tech pack all together. It truly does make more sense as a package. But it also would have raised the price of the car. I am with you in wanting them to be developed quickly, but I also don't blame Ford for my own decision. That is where our opinions differ.

Someone made mention of me over generalizing. In that case lets eliminate the extra chatter and allow only tech pack owners that have their vehicle, or have experienced limp mode chime in. I can with relative certainty say that this thread will become real quiet, real fast.

Appreciate paragraph 1, don't see the need for additional dig in paragraph 2. I've had chassis G0853 since December, ordered it a month before Shelby Owners Manual Supplement came out. Specifically requested the coolers before ordering (along the lines [MENTION=20937]macinehead[/MENTION] just laid out) and was told clearly no coolers are available w tech pkg. Went ahead with tech pkg not knowing anything about limp mode (on a SHELBY no less) Much to my and my dealers surprise, it came with one of the coolers. Hate to think of the problems had they not included the engine oil cooler... Just saying it's suspect that's all. No need for on going digs.

 

[50 Deep]

Appreciate paragraph 1, don't see the need for additional dig in paragraph 2. I've had chassis G0853 since December, ordered it a month before Shelby Owners Manual Supplement came out. Specifically requested the coolers before ordering (along the lines [MENTION=20937]macinehead[/MENTION] just laid out) and was told clearly no coolers are available w tech pkg. Went ahead with tech pkg not knowing anything about limp mode (on a SHELBY no less) Much to my and my dealers surprise, it came with one of the coolers. Hate to think of the problems had they not included the engine oil cooler... Just saying it's suspect that's all. No need for on going digs.

Not intended as a dig brother. If taken that way, then I do apologize.

I mean to say these threads would not be such a hot topic if only those who had "a dog in the fight" at the present moment were commenting. Once you get your car you will see the limp mode is not going to take away from your everyday experience with the vehicle. I hope you guys get your cars soon

 

[montreal ponies]

bullshit, quit carrying fords water, their own press kit for christ sake said you could take the cars to the track, a 14 min session max is completely ridiculous. this shouldn't even be a debate but the fanboys just cant stand to admit their favorite blue logo makes mistakes. Jesus you bore me. The same few continue to come in state their opinion and shit on every thread give it a rest. We get it you think we are dumb. I think many of you cant see past your blue tinted sunglasses.

I didn't really have the balls to reply something like that ( cuz i'm a relatively nice guy ), but that's exactly how i would've said it . :clap2:

 

[Sprintamx]

I have a Tech Pack, I have not suffered "limp mode" and I'm upset; but, I'm also pragmatic and have lots of other things to focus on in life.

My biggest difficulty with all of this hoo-hah is that the "discussion" almost immediately devolved into name-calling and bashing. It came to resemble all that's pretty lousy with contemporary discourse and dialogue, and the lack thereof.

Ford made some mistakes here. There's no other explanation for eliminating the Tech and Base options after one model year, and installing coolers in every new car to be built in 2017 (and beyond). macinehead raises a relevant question about whether there may be some detriment to not having coolers, regardless of track use, because of what the temps may be under "normal" driving conditions. I've read that sustained tranny fluid operating temps above 200 F degrade the fluid and therefore could increase part wear. I don't know that this is an engineering fact, and I don't know what temps a non-cooled transmission are experiencing, but you can bet I want to get some answers.

Resale value is a separate, unanswerable question at this point.

The issue is that many, many posters attempt to make this entire situation a question about the buyer, and their judgement or intelligence . . . Gentlemen and ladies, it's about the damn car!

So, while I acknowledge that there should be little to no sympathy for the "gimmee something for free" mentality, can we please move past the denial phase that there is something inherently wrong with the way 2016 cars were configured.

 

[Rogue]

bullshit, quit carrying fords water, their own press kit for christ sake said you could take the cars to the track, a 14 min session max is completely ridiculous. this shouldn't even be a debate but the fanboys just cant stand to admit their favorite blue logo makes mistakes. Jesus you bore me. The same few continue to come in state their opinion and shit on every thread give it a rest. We get it you think we are dumb. I think many of you cant see past your blue tinted sunglasses.

The press kit was referring to the GT350 Track Pack and the R. The mistake made was customers and dealers ordering a Technology package and expecting it to perform exactly like the track versions. Let's not blame Ford for customers ordering the wrong car, and be grateful they are offering a retrofit for those who insist on sofa seats and big stereos.

 

[Hack]

My biggest difficulty with all of this hoo-hah is that the "discussion" almost immediately devolved into name-calling and bashing. It came to resemble all that's pretty lousy with contemporary discourse and dialogue, and the lack thereof.

I agree and well said.

The press kit was referring to the GT350 Track Pack and the R. The mistake made was customers and dealers ordering a Technology package and expecting it to perform exactly like the track versions. Let's not blame Ford for customers ordering the wrong car, and be grateful they are offering a retrofit for those who insist on sofa seats and big stereos.

Perfect example of name calling and bashing.

 

[Caballus]

[MENTION=21788]Tank[/MENTION] [MENTION=21162]Caballus[/MENTION] @sprintmax [MENTION=20919]superman07[/MENTION]

I hope you guys realize that personally I would have also liked to have the coolers and tech pack all together. It truly does make more sense as a package. But it also would have raised the price of the car. I am with you in wanting them to be developed quickly, but I also don't blame Ford for my own decision. That is where our opinions differ.

Someone made mention of me over generalizing. In that case lets eliminate the extra chatter and allow only tech pack owners that have their vehicle, or have experienced limp mode chime in. I can with relative certainty say that this thread will become real quiet, real fast.

Respectfully disagree with your logic. About as logical as saying only those who truly own theirs, paid in full, should be allowed to speak.

When this discussion started, there were many who said "prove it." Then it became, "well, that's one case...ok, two...ok...7-8 but you haven't personally experienced it so shut up."

Again, I speak only for myself, and I don't wait for bombs to blow up before taking action...or at least I try not to. Nor do I believe in repeating the same behavior over and over while expecting a different outcome. There is an obvious "pattern of failure" that does not need to be further repeated to be proven. There is, conversely, no proof that Ford has acknowledged or intends to address the issue.

So, now it's time to show a non-track pack that can complete a single track session and to define "sustained high speeds". Haven't seen it yet, though I will unfortunately nervously put mine to the test...more nervously than would be the case if it were a basic Mustang GT.

I am not seeking coolers and never wanted them, because I have no intention to spend all day on the track. I am seeking for the car to perform as advertised, regardless to what's in a supplement received months after ordering or in an owner's manual to be read after purchasing. If coolers are the only way to get it there, so be it.

It's not made for the drag strip...got it, great leap forward from muscle to sport. It's not made for sustained high speeds...huh? It's not made for a basic track session...huh? Is it a sports car or an angry show car?

 

[Caballus]

The press kit was referring to the GT350 Track Pack and the R. The mistake made was customers and dealers ordering a Technology package and expecting it to perform exactly like the track versions. Let's not blame Ford for customers ordering the wrong car, and be grateful they are offering a retrofit for those who insist on sofa seats and big stereos.

I missed the press kit that said references to the track and sustained high speeds only apply to the track and R. I've dug pretty deep to find it, and it continues to escape me. As for performance, in my case alone, I never expected the Tech to perform exactly like the track versions. I expected it to sustain high speeds and be able to complete a track session, like any sports car of its advertised caliber. That's all; no more, and certainly no less.

 

[Tank]

Is it a sports car or an angry show car?

My window sticker says Sports Car:cheers: (Sorry non R owners, the register mark comes with all of them...)

 

[SpursFan]

I missed the press kit that said references to the track and sustained high speeds only apply to the track and R. I've dug pretty deep to find it, and it continues to escape me. As for performance, in my case alone, I never expected the Tech to perform exactly like the track versions. I expected it to sustain high speeds and be able to complete a track session, like any sports car of its advertised caliber. That's all; no more, and certainly no less.

You seem to keep forgetting or lack the experience that many other "sports cars" that have similar limp modes many much worse. If you don't like the car cancel your order or change it to what suites your needs.

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