What’s this thing?

[Crew4991]

Mine's an '18 and doesn't interact with Ford Pass. I have to be within sight distance to remote start. I'm OK with that though.
Still, that doesn't mean I don't think they are spying...

LOL Ford doesn't care if people are sneaking off to the local donut shop while they say they are on a diet. They just want to sell that information to donut advertisers that will randomly populate an advertisement in your email.

They also probably want to track the number of times one visits a Ford dealer for service. If they notice you haven't had any repairs lately, they know they did something wrong!

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[Coosawjack]

I checked mine and it seems there is no Telematics in a 400A Car??

 

[Canuckican]

The following is just my $0.02 opinion. It's not specific to FordPass, although I'm using it as a for-instance. I don't think they're doing anything illegal but they could make sure us non-lawyer types really understand what it is we are agreeing to when we sign all that paperwork when we buy a car or agree to privacy policies when we install an app. They are doing the required disclosures and we are agreeing to the rules. I can't say I've ever read and understood everything I am signing in them. It's not going to get better for those of us that like performance cars, at least not newer ones.

If only this is only about advertisers. The extent of data collected by tools such as FordPass (and similar software from other manufacturers) and what we are possibly agreeing to let them do with the data collected could cost us a whole lot more than a bit more junk mail.

I have a certain familiarity with how this data collection and analysis works. This event logging has been in the trucking industry for ages, it's just now catching up with the rest of us. They also have roadside inspections and FMCSA too. I'm always surprised how many drivers/companies are actually able to stay in compliance given the complexity of their regulations and extent of the driver and vehicle monitoring that takes place.

Once the driver behavior is in the hands of a company like LexisNexis (there are many others) and they do their thing, very few of us will be happy with the generated driver/safety scores. There are many places to set acceptable baselines and variances above or below which will create violations. What's hard braking to the scoring/insurance company will be nothing like what we may consider hard braking. It does not matter if a hard braking event was because a kid ran out in front of you or you were just breaking in a new set of brakes on a back road. You exceeded the hard braking threshold = hard braking violation. Want to do some donuts in a deserted lot somewhere? Oh boy, steering wheel angle and throttle application violations for you. Checking out a misfire after installing a new tune and need a blip of full throttle acceleration, got you again. The driver safety score industry is going to be a big deal to a whole bunch of the drivers out there when it comes time to renew insurance policies.

The next step will be to use GPS data cross-referenced to posted speed limits and known stop signs to do automatic electronic withdrawals from the bank account linked to the vehicle's registered owner to pay for the immediately generated citations as proven by the linked vehicle data. Just kidding, I hope!

Additional information on Ford's privacy policy is here. It's dull but informative reading.

https://www.ford.com/help/privacy/#USprivacypolicy

 

[Cobra Jet]

 

[Canuckican]

Amusing yes, but I've worked in/with vehicle data more years than I care to remember, ranging from crash data analysis, crash test "dummies" and vehicle logging data. I see it first hand.

Anyway, like it I say, just my $0.02. As long as you are an informed consumer and understand the rules, have at it.

https://dnyuz.com/2024/03/11/automa...rs-driving-behavior-with-insurance-companies/

 

[RTFM]

So what if you have the modem but never set up Ford Pass? When I first got the car I had a few emails from Ford reminding me to set it up but I never saw the point of doing it so I haven't.

If you did not set up FordPass, did not agree to receive free FordPass points when you got the car and did not create a personal online account on Ford’s website, then you did not agree to their EULA and they can not legally get your data.
They are still able to physically get it, since all the hardware is in place. But if they have ethics, they won’t.
If you don’t trust their ethics, pop the trunk liner next to the left rear light and unplug the 3 cables into the modem.

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

The following is just my $0.02 opinion. It's not specific to FordPass, although I'm using it as a for-instance. I don't think they're doing anything illegal but they could make sure us non-lawyer types really understand what it is we are agreeing to when we sign all that paperwork when we buy a car or agree to privacy policies when we install an app. They are doing the required disclosures and we are agreeing to the rules. I can't say I've ever read and understood everything I am signing in them. It's not going to get better for those of us that like performance cars, at least not newer ones.

If only this is only about advertisers. The extent of data collected by tools such as FordPass (and similar software from other manufacturers) and what we are possibly agreeing to let them do with the data collected could cost us a whole lot more than a bit more junk mail.

I have a certain familiarity with how this data collection and analysis works. This event logging has been in the trucking industry for ages, it's just now catching up with the rest of us. They also have roadside inspections and FMCSA too. I'm always surprised how many drivers/companies are actually able to stay in compliance given the complexity of their regulations and extent of the driver and vehicle monitoring that takes place.

Once the driver behavior is in the hands of a company like LexisNexis (there are many others) and they do their thing, very few of us will be happy with the generated driver/safety scores. There are many places to set acceptable baselines and variances above or below which will create violations. What's hard braking to the scoring/insurance company will be nothing like what we may consider hard braking. It does not matter if a hard braking event was because a kid ran out in front of you or you were just breaking in a new set of brakes on a back road. You exceeded the hard braking threshold = hard braking violation. Want to do some donuts in a deserted lot somewhere? Oh boy, steering wheel angle and throttle application violations for you. Checking out a misfire after installing a new tune and need a blip of full throttle acceleration, got you again. The driver safety score industry is going to be a big deal to a whole bunch of the drivers out there when it comes time to renew insurance policies.

The next step will be to use GPS data cross-referenced to posted speed limits and known stop signs to do automatic electronic withdrawals from the bank account linked to the vehicle's registered owner to pay for the immediately generated citations as proven by the linked vehicle data. Just kidding, I hope!

Additional information on Ford's privacy policy is here. It's dull but informative reading.

https://www.ford.com/help/privacy/#USprivacypolicy

Problem is, once just about every car on the road is doing this, the ones that have it disabled will just get lumped in to the average anyway. And literally everyone on the road is a terrible driver, so you lose anyway.

 

[Gregs24]

I have yet to see proof that this is shared with all insurance companies. I believe only one guy mentioned his rates went up.

We know for a fact that this data is shared with the insurance company if you sign up with the Insurance company provided by Ford. I just don't know if they share it with other insurance companies. Either way I am still debating if I should pull that fuse, I do like the ability to lock and unlock my car, etc.

That thread was like 35 pages maybe I missed it but anyways I guess the best solution is pulling that fuse if you want to stop the transmission.

As you say there is a difference between the use of general anonymised usage data by companies and specific data for your vehicle with your insurer. My understanding is that unless you have a usage based policy specifically linked to the car telematics that you have agreed to then the data is not used by insurance companies. Effectively they use the built in system to replace a third party add on device that would otherwise be used for the policy.

 

[Gregs24]

If I unplug that does that mean the government can't track me anymore?

As if any government is interested in where you are or what you are doing (unless you have a good reason for being tracked - in which case they would just use your phone anyway)!

Seriously, how much monitoring and data processing would be required for that to be even a possibility and even if it were possible, what interest is it to anybody that you have just been to the shops? That is not to say that the data isn't stored and usable post 'incident' by law enforcement agencies, but real time tracking - just no

 

[Jaymar]

As if any government is interested in where you are or what you are doing (unless you have a good reason for being tracked - in which case they would just use your phone anyway)!

Seriously, how much monitoring and data processing would be required for that to be even a possibility and even if it were possible, what interest is it to anybody that you have just been to the shops? That is not to say that the data isn't stored and usable post 'incident' by law enforcement agencies, but real time tracking - just no

By that same mentality you should consent to a full search of you car at checkpoints along the road because innocent people have nothing to hide. It is very easy to collect all that data from your car, they don't have to do anything with it for the capability to be there posing a threat. 4th amendment rights exist to protect you before things go too far because they would be of no use once they did.

 

[Gregs24]

By that same mentality you should consent to a full search of you car at checkpoints along the road because innocent people have nothing to hide. It is very easy to collect all that data from your car, they don't have to do anything with it for the capability to be there posing a threat. 4th amendment rights exist to protect you before things go too far because they would be of no use once they did.

Your US rights are meaningless to me and I am more than happy there is no 'threat' to me.

Everything is very easy to collect but then what - where is it being stored, who is paying for the huge data processing facility, how long is it stored for etc. When you actually start looking into that you realise that big brother really isn't watching, because nothing is worth watching most of the time!

 

[Buldawg76]

Here is what ford states about sharing your info with insurance companies for what it's worth. I don't hold much faith in what they say but supposedly you can opt out from your vehicles sync system.

Ford Says It Only Shares Driving Info With Owner's Consent (fordauthority.com)

BD

 

[Gregs24]

Here is what ford states about sharing your info with insurance companies for what it's worth. I don't hold much faith in what they say but supposedly you can opt out from your vehicles sync system.

Ford Says It Only Shares Driving Info With Owner's Consent (fordauthority.com)

BD

I think you will find it is 'opt-in' through Sync to share with an insurer. It is just using Sync instead of adding a 'black box' unit that some insurance companies use to monitor use and help reduce premiums for young drivers that drive in a safe way. Both of my sons had black boxes fitted in their cars for the first 2 or 3 years of driving and it halved the insurance they had to pay (assuming they drove responsibly)

 

[_zOmbIE_]

IMO people with nothing to hide don't hide anything.

If on-board telematics ratting out stupid people doing stupid things keeps premiums down, I'm all for it.

 

[Buldawg76]

I have not checked if I am opted in or out yet since just got this in email today and I have not disabled the telematics either but since buying my stang in Jan 2022 my insurance rates have went down at each renewal as well so don't believe they are getting any info about my driving habits.

If insurance rate goes up, I will go dark.

BD

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