Track Day Fun In A GT PP

[Chlocli]

Not every one can drive like Randy, he is just an average driver like majority of us. I am sure he loves his 6M.

If anything the video showed how easy the S550 is to drive at a nice pace (e.g. not killing the tires in 10 laps with overzealous sliding). The stability looks really good and not much visible weight transfer.

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[Tim Hilliard]

And sorry for derailing your thread Tim. I'll bow out of the M discussion moving forward.

LOL Really? Ummm yea, I've NEVER derailed a thread


Honestly, everyone made very valid points. Again, DD or Toy's how we choose to piss our money away is all relative.

It's not a fair assessment to judge the drivers ability, if you listen to the commentary Tom admits many faults. Remember this was obviously some sort of media event, they tend to frown upon cars in the grass (or worse), they have no safety gear on, they are hopping car to car basically doing a couple of hot laps. I can't multi-task (my Wife reminds me all the time) so I promise my in-car GoPro footage will only contain me talking to myself, not to the camera ;) I only shared it because its a Mustang on a track playing with some of the cars Ford looked at when developing the '15.

He comments that they are really pushing hard, meaning that these cars would not pull away like that equally driven. I'd be spazzy too if I had the chance to beat on the best of the best for the day.

This makes waiting for the snow to melt of of my local road courses this winter so much worse.

 

[scottpe]

And this is strictly speaking about straight line capability. Not interior quality, practicality, chassis improvements, or anything else. It's a solid platform so I'm not sure where you going with this.

My point was that anyone that might be cross-shopping the two (GT+PP vs M4) and are drawn to the (much) lower price of the Mustang need not be discouraged by the acceleration delta. That gap can be closed in a big way in the Mustang at a relatively small expense, if desired, resulting in a car that performs that much closer to the M, but still at a fraction of the price.

And I would certainly never try to argue that a Mustang could match the Ms on pure refinement or practicality. That's just not what a Mustang is about. But Ford have at least added enough refinement now that the car is legitimately being cross shopped with the BMW's for the first time by many, which says a lot, as do the comments from reviewers concluding that they actually like the Mustang better than the M4, after having driven both. That's what I find the most exciting about the comparison between the cars. Heck, the fact that people feel compelled to compare them at all is pretty remarkable if you ask me.

 

[Tim Hilliard]

M4 Drive same day.

 

[Sanctuary]

I understand the price difference, and there's a counter point to be made about diminishing returns on a car's sticker price. It's not fair or realistic to expect a car like the M3/M4 to perform a whole Mustang's worth better. But for the most comparable models you can spec: a loaded GT PP (sans optional features that are also not standard in the M), you're looking at a GT PP + 6MT + 401A (for memory seats and vaguely competitive sound system) + ACC + premier trim + nav. That's $43.6k MSRP. Take an M4 + 6MT + extended leather (the "minimum" option) and you have all of the S550's features save for BLIS, and yet you get many others included. That's $66.6k, creating a $23k sticker difference.

$23k buys you a car that's faster, more economical, has more features, more practical storage capabilities, better interior materials, loads of CFRP material in its construction, and superb chassis tuning. Subjective matters are an entirely separate category that anyone could argue with, and I still think the S550 is the more attractive of the two. I'd even go so far as to say that I'd take the GT PP if I had a choice between the two, money no object. But based on objective measures, the F82 M4 is a hell of a lot of car for the money and definitely worth every penny, especially if you're sensible with your options. It comes with so many standard features that you don't need the $3500 full leather, the $4000 exec package (with a HUD, heated steering wheel, etc.), the $1900 all-LED lights and auto high beams, the $1900 active driving crap with side on top view cameras and speed limit info, nor the monstrously overkill $8000 carbon ceramic brakes. It's a complete package even in "stripper" form.

Spot on, it's just in a difference class. You really do get what you pay for, got to look at the whole picture.

 

[Chlocli]

M4 Drive same day.

Wow, that Tahoe (police car?) looked pretty comfortable on the track.

 

[Swoope]

LOL Really? Ummm yea, I've NEVER derailed a thread


Honestly, everyone made very valid points. Again, DD or Toy's how we choose to piss our money away is all relative.

It's not a fair assessment to judge the drivers ability, if you listen to the commentary Tom admits many faults. Remember this was obviously some sort of media event, they tend to frown upon cars in the grass (or worse), they have no safety gear on, they are hopping car to car basically doing a couple of hot laps. I can't multi-task (my Wife reminds me all the time) so I promise my in-car GoPro footage will only contain me talking to myself, not to the camera ;) I only shared it because its a Mustang on a track playing with some of the cars Ford looked at when developing the '15.

He comments that they are really pushing hard, meaning that these cars would not pull away like that equally driven. I'd be spazzy too if I had the chance to beat on the best of the best for the day.

This makes waiting for the snow to melt of of my local road courses this winter so much worse.

yep,

controlled media event. actually they were moving fast for a media event..

the driver was fine, just was not a track guy..

to those who are poo pooing the drive that have not done a track event, well he is better than you!

tim, what is your solution for tires on the 550? that is a struggle for me.

beers

 

[genericuser1]

You can't compare Mainstream and Luxury cars if you are looking at performance to price ratio.

And I wouldn't buy an M3 or M4 over a loaded GT if performance was the only criteria. M series cars have always been know as the jack of all trades offering a great DD and a good track experience with luxury amenities.

Mustangs have offered great performance at everyman prices and continue to do sell.

If you are shopping a new M4, RS5 or C63 you are not cross shopping with a Mustang GT. Now a used M3 and a new GT? perhaps.

 

[Devon]

Perhaps a better comparator for the GT is the upcoming M2. The price delta will be less, and the practicality will be more comparable (although the back seat in an M235i seems more usable than what the GT offers).

Unless the GT totally wins me over on a test drive, I'll be waiting for the M2 before deciding.

 

[w3rkn]

The M4's going to walk the S550 on a straight and eat it up in the corners, as much as I'd like to say differently. Stiffer chassis, much lighter curb, way more power and torque, better gearboxes, better brakes, and a better eLSD. Its performance envelope is leagues beyond the E92 which was always brought up in comparison with the S197. The only potential Bimmer eater is going to be a GT350 and up.

Or^...
any GT, that has had $7k worth of work done to it... ?


Oppo, I think you are underestimating the GT. The BMW M's have pimp suspensions & now turbo torque, but are also $25k more. But after seeing the GT350 nurb videos, I don't think the GT's upgrade path is stunted..!!

Winter tires, track tires, helmet, cf shaft & aftermarket galore... or M4..?


Is how I think most will see it. Can't wait to see what the GT350 brings. To see the actual direction Ford is going & compare that with BMW's mantra.

 

[Pie]

All these comparisons are good to show potential of the car. It really comes down to the driver and experience. I have passed faster cars on the track and kept up with others through corners. I then get destroyed in the straights...hoping to change that with a GT

 

[Tim Hilliard]

yep,

controlled media event. actually they were moving fast for a media event..

the driver was fine, just was not a track guy..

to those who are poo pooing the drive that have not done a track event, well he is better than you!

tim, what is your solution for tires on the 550? that is a struggle for me.

beers

Thank you for adding to the voice of reason with your comments.

Tires are still a conundrum (do I win word of the day?) I hate staggered set-ups because I'm cheap and OCD rotate. The M4 has a staggered set up with the same size tire as the PP with a 35 aspect ratio, Pilots. The Z28 I saw had some RE11's on it (305's) I want to atleast get the rear PP wheels on the front so I have a square set up, I assume the offset will work. That would be my ideal street package. Once I get my car I may just buy some used 18's from Dean or one of the other Mustang PWC guys on the cheap and run a real real tire for events ( and on the street so I know I'm breaking the law)

There are a lot of choices but until I can make some fitment test's I have no idea which route to take, the good street tires are ungodly expensive so I think buying used scuffs are the best route. Keep the nice factory wheels for special occasions.

 

[Swoope]

Thank you for adding to the voice of reason with your comments.

Tires are still a conundrum (do I win word of the day?) I hate staggered set-ups because I'm cheap and OCD rotate. The M4 has a staggered set up with the same size tire as the PP with a 35 aspect ratio, Pilots. The Z28 I saw had some RE11's on it (305's) I want to atleast get the rear PP wheels on the front so I have a square set up, I assume the offset will work. That would be my ideal street package. Once I get my car I may just buy some used 18's from Dean or one of the other Mustang PWC guys on the cheap and run a real real tire for events ( and on the street so I know I'm breaking the law)

There are a lot of choices but until I can make some fitment test's I have no idea which route to take, the good street tires are ungodly expensive so I think buying used scuffs are the best route. Keep the nice factory wheels for special occasions.

yea,

the choices are hard for me.. i like to run extreme performance summers. ie rival/ re11/ z11 / or rs3. like to be able to drive to and from track and life span. if i do get the mustang it will be a ecoboost.. so i think 275 all around, and right now that is a size you can get. but they are pricy.

you might get a pm from me looking for light track wheels take offs from race teams. i have no ford connections, just mazda.

have a set of superleggera 17" that weigh 15 lbs each.. they were the deal of the century..

i am going to run off the last of my track tires on the rx8 at daytona on halloween.. so i guess the search begins.

beers

 

[juzef]

I wish he would have given a detailed driving impression of both cars and a comparison after the test drives. I could barely here him talking while he was in the M4 (especially with all that sound coming from the speakers lol). Wish he would especially comment on which car was more fun, also on the steering feel of both cars, the handling, the throttle response, the acceleration, and interior/exterior look and finish.

One observation of concern is at the point where he proclaims "It's Fast, Fast in a Mustang its pretty rare..",.. all you could see is the M4 disappear into the distance. WTF?

 

[genericuser1]

One observation of concern is at the point where he proclaims "It's Fast, Fast in a Mustang its pretty rare..",.. all you could see is the M4 disappear into the distance. WTF?

Turbo vs NA.

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