To Coilover Or Not

[H00CH90]

So I started autocrossing my Fiesta ST last year and want to get into some HPDE and autocross events with my Mustang. I already have some suspension upgrades (Steeda sway bars, eibach pro kit springs, koni special active struts/shocks, a bunch of other little things) and now I'm getting ready to put a 305 square setup on it. I need camber plates but now I'm wondering if I should just replace my springs with Steeda coilovers. Is it worth it? If so, which spring rate is best for a balance between street (mountain roads) and occasional track?

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[blind*guardian]

I'm running Bilstein B16 coil overs and they're running a progressive spring with something like 350-400 lbf/in at the end of the stroke and honestly I think it's a pretty good mix between street and auto-cross. In the back, they're also progressive with a max rate of ~725 lbf/in. Can't comment on how those rates would translate to the Steeda coil-overs, but works pretty well for me with Bilsteins. I like the ride on the street, it's not too rough, and it's pretty good for me at auto-cross as well. Granted I've only done 4 or so autocross events so far, so no expert.

Granted, I'm thinking that the fact that the springs are progressive on my coil-overs, that may be helping a lot with the street comfort side of the things. If you just stick with a single rate spring up-front, perhaps 350 lbf/in may be a bit much.

 

[H00CH90]

I'm running Bilstein B16 coil overs and they're running a progressive spring with something like 350-400 lbf/in during most of the stroke and honestly I think it's a pretty good mix between street and auto-cross. In the back, they're also progressive with a max rate of ~725 lbf/in. Can't comment on how those rates would translate to the Steeda coil-overs, but works pretty well for me with Bilsteins. I like the ride on the street, it's not too rough, and it's pretty good for me at auto-cross as well. Granted I've only done 4 or so autocross events so far, so no expert.

Steeda mentioned 250 or 275 pound but that seemed too light, I was considering 350 or 375. It's not my daily so I don't mind a little harsher ride. I believe my current rate is around 300 and it rolls a little more than I'd like in a hard turn, part of why I'm considering the swap to coilovers.

 

[NightmareMoon]

For a coilover, I’d prioritize one which has the highest quality damper, and one which can doesnt force you to drop the car more than 3/4”. The cheaper coilovers often lower the car an inch or more at minimum and thats a bit too low for handling purposes. You need some suspension travel to let the suspension work.

iDK the specs on the Steeda damper you’re referring to, but if its based on the ProAction then its not really any better than a normal spring over a koni/pro-action adjustable shock (which will be better suited to handling than your ‘active’ shocks, but not top tier quality exactly). With coilovers you get what you pay for and lets hope you’re paying for good quality dampers.

As you get into stiffer handling springs (say 300 and up) you really need a much higher tier of damper to retain any sort of daily driver comfort. In the middle range of handling spring rates (like GT35R spring rates) you’re probably ok with cheaper shocks in the more affordable coilovers.

steeda sells MCS coilovers too and if you’re /serious/, I’d start pricing those out, because they’re actually legit good parts.

 

[H00CH90]

For a coilover, I’d prioritize one which has the highest quality damper, and one which can doesnt force you to drop the car more than 3/4”. The cheaper coilovers often lower the car an inch or more at minimum and thats a bit too low for handling purposes. You need some suspension travel to let the suspension work.

iDK the specs on the Steeda damper you’re referring to, but if its based on the ProAction then its not really any better than a normal spring over a koni/pro-action adjustable shock (which will be better suited to handling than your ‘active’ shocks, but not top tier quality exactly). With coilovers you get what you pay for and lets hope you’re paying for good quality dampers.

As you get into stiffer handling springs (say 300 and up) you really need a much higher tier of damper to retain any sort of daily driver comfort. In the middle range of handling spring rates (like GT35R spring rates) you’re probably ok with cheaper shocks in the more affordable coilovers.

steeda sells MCS coilovers too and if you’re /serious/, I’d start pricing those out, because they’re actually legit good parts.

This is good info, just to clarify, MCS meaning... KW Mustang Clubsport? I'd rather buy the correct kit the first time. Even if that means spending a bit more than I initially planned.

 

[NightmareMoon]

This is good info, just to clarify, MCS meaning... KW Mustang Clubsport? I'd rather buy the correct kit the first time. Even if that means spending a bit more than I initially planned.

Uhhh no. I meant Motion Control Systems, and I don't see it on the Steeda website anymore. Was there last time I checked. Maybe they're not a vendor anymore.

 

[PaddyPrix]

This is good info, just to clarify, MCS meaning... KW Mustang Clubsport? I'd rather buy the correct kit the first time. Even if that means spending a bit more than I initially planned.

Can't speak for the previous poster, but MCS as in coil-overs by Motion Control Systems. If you look at what's on most Mustangs (and non-Mustangs) that win races, you'll usually find those on them. It's a pretty high end product for serious race cars, and I tend to believe the best on the market. I went with the 2 way non-reservoir, because the price was right. Having the ability to dial in the compression and rebound allows me to fine tune the suspension to my liking at the various tracks, and the while the 4way has High Speed and Low Speed settings of each, I don't (yet?) see the additional value in having those additional settings.

Edit : Not trying to be the usual elitist hypocrite with an excuse, because I pretty much built mine up first, but I also made it to be competition/track-only from the start. If I had a dual-purpose car that I could enjoy and drive on the street, I'd probably save up the $4k or so, or better dedicate it to seat time and drive the car to its limits where you know that you've squeezed every ounce out of it, to the point that the car is now your limitation, not your abilities/skill.

Caster/Camber plates might be a better next mod. I don't know your local course layouts, but if you're on a stock-ish camber, chances are you'll notice the outer shoulder of the tires wearing pretty good if you're on longer sustained, high speed (125+) turns, and being able to adjust your camber a little further will not only allow you to perform slightly better by getting your weight better distributed across your tire's contact patch, but also save you some money in the long run as you can get more life out of your tires. When you're done with your track weekend, you can then dial it back to better street-friendly settings so you don't chew up your the insides.

 

[H00CH90]

Appreciate the info, definitely going to start doing some research on MCS coilovers.

 

[NightmareMoon]

yeah the prices on the good coilover options is why I'm still on normal springs over cheaper shocks.

I'm kicking ass with just Koni yellows and the Steeda Ultimate Dual Rate springs (350# front rate). Ride on the street is a lot busier than my friends car with expensive custom coilovers and stiffer 500# front springs, but he paid 2x what I paid for his setup.

That kit (I think) is a Pro Parts USA off the books thing which uses Bilstein internals and a Megan Racing shock body IIRC, and you could call and ask about it. I think they're relatively affordable for what you get. Its not on their website.

 

[EFI]

want to get into some HPDE and autocross events with my Mustang

IMO you should worry about getting some seat time rather than just throwing even money at it. Have you even driven the car to 1) know it's limitations and 2) have your skills exceeded the cars limitations so much so that they are holding you back from better times?

What about brakes and cooling for that 700+hp car?

 

[NightmareMoon]

IMO you should worry about getting some seat time rather than just throwing even money at it. Have you even driven the car to 1) know it's limitations (especially with 700+hp) and 2) have your skills exceeded the cars limitations so much so that they are holding you back from better times?

What about brakes and cooling?

Its true, best to drive it until you're sure the car is actually holding you back. It takes a lot of driving to get to that point.

 

[H00CH90]

Yea, very good points. I know I need to upgrade the brakes. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Either way this has been good info. I have a "larger" radiator (PP stock) I've been meaning to put in but I'm still on the 4 pistons. Maybe I'll just buy a camber plate for my current setup and spend the money on brakes. Probably the wise thing to do.

 

[EFI]

I have a "larger" radiator (PP stock) I've been meaning to put in but I'm still on the 4 pistons.

You're going to have a very short time on track with that setup. The PP radiator and the OEM water/oil cooler are barely adequate for a stock car. As are the base GT brakes.

With 700hp you'll be limping into the pits after a few laps.

A stock PP car with stock dampers is going to run circles around your 700hp MCS coilovered car.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you're going about this the completely wrong way. If you're just looking to have a little bit of fun and go around a track I'm sure you can do that. But considering you're looking to drop $5k on a set of coils, I think your goals for this car are more than just putting around in the novice groups.

 

[PaddyPrix]

Not that safety is a bad thing, depending on your track, some courses have harder brake zones and higher speeds which could make that Code Brown, or even worse, Codes Black, Blue, and Red. If you're not experiencing where the fluid is boiling and pedal going to the floor, or having to frantically double or triple pump to save your life, perhaps the Caster/Camber might be a good next mod. You'll be able to dial your camber up and get better tire contact, and better yet, save your outer shoulders from being chewed up on heavy turns which get you more tire life if you're going up on street tires. That, and once you get back from your track weekend, you can dial it back some so you're not running around town at -4 degrees and chewing up your inner tire until you hit the track again.

I'd think a car with roots/ts would have overheating problems at the track with all the power it can put down, so either you've got a fantastic cooling system, or not yet pushing it to those extremes. Out here, my boosted friends can only do 3-4 laps before they have to come off, and I don't often see them if it's going to be 100+ out.

 

[H00CH90]

You're going to have a very short time on track with that setup. The PP radiator and the OEM water/oil cooler are barely adequate for a stock car. As are the base GT brakes.

With 700hp you'll be limping into the pits after a few laps.

A stock PP car with stock dampers is going to run circles around your 700hp MCS coilovered car.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you're going about this the completely wrong way. If you're just looking to have a little bit of fun and go around a track I'm sure you can do that. But considering you're looking to drop $5k on a set of coils, I think your goals for this car are more than just putting around in the novice groups.

Nope, not harsh. I want this input. Realistically I'm a few years from pushing it very hard but I'd hate to cook the engine before I get to that point. I'll only be able to make a handful of track days a year with this. PP radiator I got dirt cheap, wouldn't bother me to toss it and find something better. I guess I'll put my focus on cooling and braking. Are the stock 6 pistons holding up well on track?

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