The true reason unveild behind Gen3 coyote tick. According to MPR racing engines

[Loki-GT]

I jabe videos and chronicled from day one, my Blackstone oil sample kit just arriced...I will be getting service next week and asking for filter cut open along with diagnostics...I will offer to pay for out of pocket borescroping if they find something they don't charge me if, if they don't I'll pay.....I'll also bore scope it myself when I change plugs for blower ....I'll keep everyone here for legitimate reasons as closely in the loop as I am able.....I've raced, tuned( efi and carb) , and built engines for nearly 30 years but this is my first Ford and first Coyote....LOVE the car.....hate the tick/rattle.....love the trans as well.....
I can't speak for others but I can promise my intentions are pure and it's for us to network to help drill down to the answer, alleviate fears, enjoy our cars, and worse case give all the info I possibly can for those of us that didn't get the less than .001 clearance required for your cast pistons to not rattle at temp.....
As I stare in my video of coarse you look up frequent headache online your gonna find a tumor, but after 12 years of being an IT Manager...30 a car enthusiast there seems to be a little more fire than smoke.....
Just reverse it how the hell would Ford recover if they recalled every PWTA engine put out minus the ones with Ford pistons....I got some inside info I may be able to share later ( not nothing real social just how my own good friend changed his tuned from hell yeah that's not right , to they all do that AFTER HE plugged my VIN into oasic....very telling )

As we saw with VW and their billions of dollars diesel fiasco car manufacturers somehow absorb these huge hits and keep on going as the cost is passed right on down to the buyer, if they keep buying and apparently they are.

Sponsored

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

Yes no problem 10/18 was sticker date.... developed tick at 336 miles quite as a mouse before

 

[CrashOverride]

Please link another car forum where the users report such high number of engine issues resulting in replacement, buyback, lemon law, etc...

I don't have references but any search engine will point to these issues. I hope you understand, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just pointing out some examples I know of.

• C6 Z06 liked to drop valves. (exhaust? Can't remember...but I think it was the sodium filled titanium ones, which were the exhaust)
• Infinity FX45 liked to burn oil like a 2-stroke, eventually requiring a new engine.
• Porsche M96 had the infamous IMS bearing problem for something like a decade. When the IMS went, it took the engine with it.
• Dodge vipers liked to spin the 3rd (I think) main bearing because the rod end was getting too much oil.
• Mopar 3.6 engine had porosity issues with pre-2013 engines, requiring at the minimum head replacement. Also, while not as catastrophic, the 3.6L is know to eat the roller followers for lunch.

There are probably more that I know of but are forgetting. Then there are probably half a dozen I don't know about. I haven't mic'd an engine, so I can't comment on the overall quality, but the coyote is definitely not unique for problems.

 

[CrashOverride]

Seeing that proper engine oil temperature may be extra important for this engine's operation, which gauge or combination of gauges should be used to insure that the engine oil is at operating temperature.
It's not as obvious now that the Engine Oil Temp Gauge has been removed from the 2019s and some 2018s.
Right now, I'm waiting for the Transmission Temp Gauge to move out of the blue sector (about 120F). It lags behind the other temps.

I have 1,700 miles on my 2019 PP1 A10 and it's quiet so far except for a little rattle at start-up.

This is so important for all cars really. BMW's used to change the engine redline based on the oil temp. Thicker (lower "pourability" because of the cold) oil doesn't pump well through the filter and galleries when cold. Yes, there is a bypass on the oil filter, but then your spewing unfiltered thick oil into the galleries while also subjecting the engine to a big heat change as it goes from ~70F to ~220F.

My 2015 has the oil temp gauge, and I leave it on that one all the time. Hopefully y'all with 2018+ cars can tweak something in ForScan so you can have the gauge as well. If not, you might be able to "hijack" a different gauge. (Look it up for BMW cars where they used the gas gauge(?) as a boost gauge).

 

[Grey03]

I have a late build 2019 started doing it pretty bad....and while I have a YouTube this is my first Ford and first new car in 27 years I prefer to build than buy hut have health problems...for me it's not about clicks I wanted people clicking on my channel to see prochargers passes and burnouts not tifking....My car will be my town mascot and I had to drive 4hrs to get it....no ticks at dealer ( 120 miles ) no ticks after the long drive varying load as best I could but not going over 4000 rpm...not ticks on other cars I looked at...I took a video when I got home for posterity ...the very next morning after it's first full jeat soak and cool down....tick...then worse and worse now it's got 1200 miles and I dread the battle to come, I'm in poor health and it wouldn't be worth a million clicks to prepare a binder.....send out oil samples ....make them cut open filter and then try to hold my temper when they pretend not to hear it forcing the issue then if I get a motor it's diminished value and lawyer time so who the hell in their right mind would don't to make a few videos...I also plan to bore scope it myself before I go in armed with as much info as possible.........
It's pretty simply it IS the PTWA tech but it's not thrbprobthe thanks to MPR we know the bore grows .005 when at operating temp, we also know the Voodoo doesn't do it...IMHO it's not because it's hand built to exacting tolerances it's that it uses a forged piston that expands with the bore at a greater rate than the cast ones in our motors...simple shit to get the hot running clearance right they would have to be less than .001 which has it's own problems...should have stayed traditional liner and cast or given us at least a 4032 alloy piston where there is a chance of success ...in fact if I have to pull my engine down I'll he trying to use a forged piston...it's the only real tangible difference between why the Voodoo doesn't tick and we do with same bore tech and it makes perfect sense if we, like my October build 19, get an engine loose ( and I'm used to letting a car warm before I to because I run 2618 alloy in my motors usually it's just automatic after so many years ) on the bore spec and piston small on the range we get to much clearance and have the tick...instead of sending a long block they probably should just do a drop in order on some 4032 alloy pistons for us ...be cheaper in long run than entire engine.....
As I've said in videos I'm not mad we have the issue I'm mad with how Ford is sticking their heads in the sand and pretending it's not even making the noise thanks Shawn I'll keep this forum updated on my case and I as a first time for owner ( maybe builder soon) appreciate the info in this site .......

My 2019 GT with 800 miles on it sounds about the same. Started at around 500 miles..... (It was built in mid October)

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

The difference to me is it wasn't happening on the z06 ( don't care about non domestic) at 336 mikes..the fix was pull heads redo and could live forever....OUR fix would require a complete redesign of the block or darton sleeves and machine work and complete rebuild it's order magnitude 20x what some premature head wear was.....unless it dropped valves at 1200 miles and the only fix was wait for years till chevy decides to entirely recast that part not just put better guides seats and valves in.....I wish it was in the heads and not a root design issue with the block whereby someone thought since it worked good with a voodoo block usinf forged pistons it will be fine with cast that don't expand with it....
I mean this isn't a cam or head or even a rod or crank this isntjr fundamental building BLOCK of the engine ....and there really IS not fix other than liners or forged pistons .....that's why we are hosed so bad imho.....and why Ford is hear no evil see no evil....

I don't have references but any search engine will point to these issues. I hope you understand, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just pointing out some examples I know of.

• C6 Z06 liked to drop valves. (exhaust? Can't remember...but I think it was the sodium filled titanium ones, which were the exhaust)
• Infinity FX45 liked to burn oil like a 2-stroke, eventually requiring a new engine.
• Porsche M96 had the infamous IMS bearing problem for something like a decade. When the IMS went, it took the engine with it.
• Dodge vipers liked to spin the 3rd (I think) main bearing because the rod end was getting too much oil.
• Mopar 3.6 engine had porosity issues with pre-2013 engines, requiring at the minimum head replacement. Also, while not as catastrophic, the 3.6L is know to eat the roller followers for lunch.

There are probably more that I know of but are forgetting. Then there are probably half a dozen I don't know about. I haven't mic'd an engine, so I can't comment on the overall quality, but the coyote is definitely not unique for problems.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

Ug exactly same with me :( how can they act like this isn't an issue ?

My 2019 GT with 800 miles on it sounds about the same. Started at around 500 miles..... (It was built in mid October)

 

[GT Pony]

That's the classic BBQ tick, which Gen3 Coyotes can also exhibit. How does it sound at 2000 RPM ... does it also have the rattle at 2K RPM?

 

[Anthony 05 GT]

This is so important for all cars really. BMW's used to change the engine redline based on the oil temp. Thicker (lower "pourability" because of the cold) oil doesn't pump well through the filter and galleries when cold. Yes, there is a bypass on the oil filter, but then your spewing unfiltered thick oil into the galleries while also subjecting the engine to a big heat change as it goes from ~70F to ~220F.

My 2015 has the oil temp gauge, and I leave it on that one all the time. Hopefully y'all with 2018+ cars can tweak something in ForScan so you can have the gauge as well. If not, you might be able to "hijack" a different gauge. (Look it up for BMW cars where they used the gas gauge(?) as a boost gauge).

They are oil galleys, not galleries. Not trying to be a dick

 

[GT Pony]

They are oil galleys, not galleries. Not trying to be a dick

Nope ... galley is a ship, or a part of the ship where cooking is done.

Gallery is a long narrow passage way. It's an oil gallery.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gallery

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/galley

 

[CrashOverride]

They are oil galleys, not galleries. Not trying to be a dick

No offense taken. LOL I suppose an oil "gallery" would be the oil aisle at Pep boys

[edit] maybe I was right? Eh, tom-eh-to tom-ah-toe. We all know what I meant regardless of how I spelled it. All in good fun my friends, all in good fun.

 

[GT Pony]

No offense taken. LOL I suppose an oil "gallery" would be the oil aisle at Pep boys

That would also fit the definition of a gallery. But not fit the definition of a "galley", unless the oil was located in the kitchen of a ship.

 

[CrashOverride]

The difference to me is it wasn't happening on the z06 ( don't care about non domestic) at 336 mikes..the fix was pull heads redo and could live forever....OUR fix would require a complete redesign of the block or darton sleeves and machine work and complete rebuild it's order magnitude 20x what some premature head wear was.....unless it dropped valves at 1200 miles and the only fix was wait for years till chevy decides to entirely recast that part not just put better guides seats and valves in.....I wish it was in the heads and not a root design issue with the block whereby someone thought since it worked good with a voodoo block usinf forged pistons it will be fine with cast that don't expand with it....
I mean this isn't a cam or head or even a rod or crank this isntjr fundamental building BLOCK of the engine ....and there really IS not fix other than liners or forged pistons .....that's why we are hosed so bad imho.....and why Ford is hear no evil see no evil....

I get where you're coming from and most (possibly all) of the issues I've cited happen further down the line. To be fair though, some people don't have an actual engine "failure" that soon. While a tick or other noise in itself stinks, especially for ~$40k, the noise itself doesn't represent an engine failure. At least how Ford and their lawyers would claim in court.

The same deal happens with oil consumption problems in GM's 3.6 V-6's (The earlier models such as in the Cadillac CTS). They consumed oil at what many would consider an abhorrent rate (as much as 1 quart every 500 miles) however GM came out with some "standard" that 1qt/1000 miles (I don't remember if they had the audacity to call it 1qt/500 miles) is completely normal. Regardless, if the noises don't kill the engine, and of the oil burning doesn't kill it, then it is a major inconvenience but not a bonafide failure.

I realize we're kind of splitting hairs here, and I feel for y'all because it is a crappy position to be in, even if it never fails. My post was made to show that there are other serious (Maybe not as serious, but nevertheless still bonafide failures) problems with other engines. The Porsche IMS problem was strange as I've read accounts of it happening loping around in traffic, not on the track for example. (I almost bought a Cayman S a few years ago). Porsche knew it was a problem and went from a single row bearing, to a dual row, and then to a "wide" single bearing. They "fixed" it with the 2009 release of a new engine which did away with the IMS shaft completely.

 

[CrashOverride]

That would also fit the definition of a gallery. But not fit the definition of a "galley", unless the oil was located in the kitchen of a ship.

Olive oil?

 

[Dusten]

Please link another car forum where the users report such high number of engine issues resulting in replacement, buyback, lemon law, etc...

Define High number.... just how many buy backs are there? 10-15? Out of 70K+ cars

Here ya go, lemons per brand.

https://lemonlawexperts.com/study-lemon-law-claims-data-us/

Sponsored