The true reason unveild behind Gen3 coyote tick. According to MPR racing engines

[GT Pony]

I just can't believe that an engine builder like MPR or the like can't pull the pan and run a ticking motor to isolate exactly what's creating the noise to come up with a solution if needed.

BBQ ticking might possibly be due to excessive rod side clearance.

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[GT Pony]

mine rattles when cold...big deal..goes away quickly once warm. My bbq tick seems ONLY to sometimes come back when oil is fresh, then literally dissapears once the oil is past half life.. odd.

I wonder if the oil is shearing and for whatever reason "fixing" (Masking?) the BBQ Tick? I would have thought it was the opposite way. Are you using stock 5w-20? If not, and are running something heavier such as 5w-50, I have to wonder if you filled it with 5w-20 new and that might stop the noise immediately since it would be closer to a sheared 50wt oil.

If anything, the 5W-20 would shear down to something even thinner. Some guys have reported their BBQ tick seems less with thicker oils, 5W-30 or thicker. And some guys say a thicker oil didn't really make any real difference. Might depend on the severity of the ticking to start with.

 

[CrashOverride]

I just can't believe that an engine builder like MPR or the like can't pull the pan and run a ticking motor to isolate exactly what's creating the noise to come up with a solution if needed.

Not to discredit any of the outstanding aftermarket companies, but I doubt they have the necessary equipment to pull it off. You would need an anechoic chamber, dyno, tons of microphones, oscilloscopes measuring every sensor conceivable by man, and probably a staff of a dozen engineers. I don't think at idle even with a clear oil pan and a fast frame rate camera one would be able to visually find the problem. More than likely the problem is ten thousands of an inch, only in a dynamic state. Perhaps only after the block/rod/piston/etc "grows" when it hits a certain temp.

If this problem is as bad as we think it is (we meaning people on this forum) then Ford has got to know something's up and they probably have already done the above. If I were to guess, it is a fundamental problem - something like the block growing/twisting too much with the other parts (The "compromise" I was talking about earlier). If it is a complex design issue, the "fix" would have to be re-engineered, tested, then the associated tooling changes need to be made, and the existing inventory be cleared out - this sequence of events could conceivably take more than a year. If it were a manufacturing problem, the tooling could be changed more quickly, or QA could be adjusted to select a narrower range of parts.

 

[CrashOverride]

If anything, the 5W-20 would shear down to something even thinner. Some guys have reported their BBQ tick seems less with thicker oils, 5W-30 or thicker. And some guys say a thicker oi.didn't really make any real difference. Might depend on the severity of the ticking to start with.

That's the line of thinking I had...that the tick would get worse as the oil shears down. I was surprised that the thicker oil didn't fix it first and then get worse as it thinned out. I like your rod clearance thought though. It's possible that this might also account for (At least a little bit) for the gearbox thud between "north" shift gates to "south" ones. I know the mitsubishi engines of the early 2000's had a nasty crank walk problem. If that is the problem, then maybe coyote engine builders would be willing to share identified thrust clearances for the rods and mains and maybe the problem will present itself as a particular out-of-spec (Or right at the edge of spec)?

I would think Ford has this already, but for sure they're not going to share it. Lest we forget the trouble Toyota got into for the rusted tundra frames...and they knew about it and played dumb.

 

[GT Pony]

I like your rod clearance thought though. It's possible that this might also account for (At least a little bit) for the gearbox thud between "north" shift gates to "south" ones. I know the mitsubishi engines of the early 2000's had a nasty crank walk problem. If that is the problem, then maybe coyote engine builders would be willing to share identified thrust clearances for the rods and mains and maybe the problem will present itself as a particular out-of-spec (Or right at the edge of spec)?

Exactly ... I'd really like to see some techs at the Ford dealerships do rod side clearance and crankshaft end play measurements (before those engines get sent back to Ford), and list them out against the factory shop manual specs. That's the kind of data we need to find a root cause.

 

[Dfeeds]

Exactly ... I'd really like to see some techs at the Ford dealerships do rod side clearance and crankshaft end play measurements (before those engines get sent back to Ford), and list them out against the factory shop manual specs. That's the kind of data we need to find a root cause.

The first thing the Ford hotline asked my dealer to check was for any crankshaft end play. According to the tech the specs were perfectly fine, and the engine never onced made the bbq ticking (loosely reinforcing this theory). New engine has it periodically, and I mean very periodically. It saddens me to think that a perfectly good shortblock may have been ruined due to something else being out of spec.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Wait, when was this decided? My 2019 has the digital gauge and I know other 2019s that have it as well.

Can you post a pic? My understanding is it was a running change (firmware?) in the 2018 MY and NO 2019s have a digital oil temp gauge.

 

[CrashOverride]

Can you post a pic? My understanding is it was a running change (firmware?) in the 2018 MY and NO 2019s have a digital oil temp gauge.

This would be very interesting if it were true. Why? Seeing what changed on ForScan/AsBuilt between the years to maybe resurrect it from the dead!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

This would be very interesting if it were true. Why? Seeing what changed on ForScan/AsBuilt between the years to maybe resurrect it from the dead!

Would be nice. That's the only thing keeping me from installing the digital cluster in my 2016. With enough time, I suppose i could find a USED cluster from before the change but (a) would prefer new and (b) since its not a hardware change, it seems Ford might force an update to remove the gauge when a car is plugged into whatever tools dealers use. It would help if we knew WHY (I posted a thread asking) Ford made the change so we can understand if they would have a reason to flash older clusters to remove the oil temp.

 

[Dfeeds]

Can you post a pic? My understanding is it was a running change (firmware?) in the 2018 MY and NO 2019s have a digital oil temp gauge.

It's 16°F so I completely missed that the flash was on. You can get the idea. I can get more later if it's necessary. This gauge is pretty much just left on when I drive.

 

[CrashOverride]

Would be nice. That's the only thing keeping me from installing the digital cluster in my 2016. With enough time, I suppose i could find a USED cluster from before the change but (a) would prefer new and (b) since its not a hardware change, it seems Ford might force an update to remove the gauge when a car is plugged into whatever tools dealers use. It would help if we knew WHY (I posted a thread asking) Ford made the change so we can understand if they would have a reason to flash older clusters to remove the oil temp.

While I agree this is not as nice as a properly integrated solution, you could probably use an OBD2 monitor for the Oil Temp PID and then "feed" it to a display such as a phone or some other gauge. (Does the ngauge have this ability? I don't have one, don't know). If you have the PP like I do, then you would have to tack the gauge on somewhere (Pillar pod?) but I don't like them that much.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

It's 16°F so I completely missed that the flash was on. You can get the idea. I can get more later if it's necessary. This gauge is pretty much just left on when I drive.

Okay. I see the confusion. The first post about it being removed was talking about the digital cluster. So I wrongly assumed your post did too. Sorry.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

While I agree this is not as nice as a properly integrated solution, you could probably use an OBD2 monitor for the Oil Temp PID and then "feed" it to a display such as a phone or some other gauge. (Does the ngauge have this ability? I don't have one, don't know). If you have the PP like I do, then you would have to tack the gauge on somewhere (Pillar pod?) but I don't like them that much.

You are massively underestimating my laziness. LoL

 

[Dfeeds]

You are massively underestimating my laziness. LoL

When you said "digital" I thought you meant the digital oil temp gauge and not the whole digital cluster. Oops. Sounds like a firmware goof to me, though. I see no reason why the digital cluster, which is supposed to be a straight upgrade, wouldn't have something the standard gauges have

 

[HoosierDaddy]

When you said "digital" I thought you meant the digital oil temp gauge and not the whole digital cluster. Oops. Sounds like a firmware goof to me, though. I see no reason why the digital cluster, which is supposed to be a straight upgrade, wouldn't have something the standard gauges have

Its not likely to be an accident IMO. That's why I am so interested in the reason. Aside from how it effects me, I find the gyrations and machinations of manufacturers fascinating. Maybe some corp lawyer worried about getting sued over the gauge not actually showing the oil temp but rather a guestimate of what the oil temp should be when other sensors have specific values (which is what it was). Should we relabel the gauge "possible oil temp" or just remove it?

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