The Fate on the ICE

[07S281E]

How many of you truly believe the US Government will be the death of the internal combustion engine? I feel like the Rush song Red Barchetta. I don't care how fast electric cars become they have no soul. Do you think we will be able to buy gas for the next 50 years? Not trying to start a political debate. Just wondering how many of you will drive an ICE until you just can't.

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[Ock]

idk but i live in Tn and im sure the good ole boys will fight for gas as long as they can...

 

[07S281E]

idk but i live in Tn and im sure the good ole boys will fight for gas as long as they can...

Me Too! 423

 

[Ock]

Me Too! 423

same.. im in JC

 

[07S281E]

same.. im in JC

Chatt

 

[GTthree50]

I intend to use my cars/trucks until I no longer can. EV’s up to this point are not for me, I agree with them being mostly without soul. I still require my car to have a manual trans and that is on negotiable, period!

 

[Ock]

Chatt

i have family there. been a long time since ive been there

 

[ICU812]

How many of you truly believe the US Government will be the death of the internal combustion engine? I feel like the Rush song Red Barchetta. I don't care how fast electric cars become they have no soul. Do you think we will be able to buy gas for the next 50 years? Not trying to start a political debate. Just wondering how many of you will drive an ICE until you just can't.

They will not have to do much. As more vehicles get better mpg, and ev's slowly take market share, fuel prices will go up, as volume of sales drop. The cycle of higher fuel prices will push more into better mpg vehicles, and the cycle creeps some more. Many areas that have 2-3 stations on a block will even up with one. and with no need to have a price war, the price will creep. The advent of work from home will also ,if it takes hold, lower fuel use and lower volume of sales. So this will all lead to many moving away from ice or at least thirsty ice vehicles , As most of the general public just wants to get from point A to point B. And can't go faster than the traffic around them. So they have no need for a high powered ice for a daily.
High power Ice vehicles will become more of the week end, summertime toy . than the standard day to day people movers.
Ice isn't going anywhere, we don't have the raw materials on earth to build an all ev fleet of vehicles. An all ev fleet would require a shot car type imbedded power rail in the roads to power them without a need for the raw materials for batteries. but unlikely.
I think it will get costly to own a thirsty ice vehicle because of the lack of volume of scale of fuel sales pushing fuel to eu price levels.
What I do see is the death of run of the mill vehicles having 300hp v6's and Light trucks having v8's or even 3.0 ltr v6's.
High fuel prices will change the buyers choice of vehicles.
Ev's are getting a free ride ATM as far as road taxes, But that will change. But even taking ev's out of the subject, if tomorrow gas fuel at 4.599 and up became the new normal, buyers would change coarse and move to smaller vehicles that get better mpg. That small suv that is on sale today with 290 hp v6 or 240hp 4 banger, can do just fine with a 1.0-1.2 ltr 100 hp tiny turbo 4. and high fuel prices would make that a reality. Honestly, I'd gladly drive a bare bones light (think late 80's early 90's) high 30's low 40'smpg economy car as a daily if they left the hobby, fun, motorsports alone.

 

[Kermut]

idk but i live in Tn and im sure the good ole boys will fight for gas as long as they can...

Me Too! 423

They will not have to do much. As more vehicles get better mpg, and ev's slowly take market share, fuel prices will go up, as volume of sales drop. The cycle of higher fuel prices will push more into better mpg vehicles, and the cycle creeps some more. Many areas that have 2-3 stations on a block will even up with one. and with no need to have a price war/..../

Yea, EV's are going to take over as the more energy-efficient, low maintenance option that 99% of the population would prefer. All the government is doing is hastening the transition. For cars like my wife's Subaru Outback, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that an ICE is preferable.

For enthusiast cars like exotics, muscle cars, etc. ICE will be around for a long time, though who knows what gas prices will be, and how difficult to obtain. So treat your car well, and I predict we will all be able to drive them on the weekend for the rest of our natural lives.

 

[Schwerin]

I'm not a fan of electric cars, but they definitely are an overall improvement in performance and, eventually, the environment. The average person does not care at all about the sound their car makes or about having fun in them. They just want to get from A to B. I'm sure people bitched the same about cars replacing Horses.

The people that give a shit are the minority and there is little to no money catering to them. Other countries will make it harder to get ICE cars than the US, but like usual the US will end up being affected by that as it is a global market and makes no financial sense for them to sell an Electric SUV in 15 countries but have an ICE just for the US. It's going to be like the Manual where they put less ICE on the lot vs Electric then use sales numbers to show that more people WANT electric when really its just there is less ICE available to choose from and the trend to kill ICE will happen faster.

I don't get why people bother bitching. It hasn't saved the manual in any way, its still dying a slow death, look at the GT500.

 

[ICU812]

I'm not a fan of electric cars, but they definitely are an overall improvement in performance and, eventually, the environment. The average person does not care at all about the sound their car makes or about having fun in them. They just want to get from A to B. I'm sure people bitched the same about cars replacing Horses.

The people that give a shit are the minority and there is little to no money catering to them. Other countries will make it harder to get ICE cars than the US, but like usual the US will end up being affected by that as it is a global market and makes no financial sense for them to sell an Electric SUV in 15 countries but have an ICE just for the US. It's going to be like the Manual where they put less ICE on the lot vs Electric then use sales numbers to show that more people WANT electric when really its just there is less ICE available to choose from and the trend to kill ICE will happen faster.

I don't get why people bother bitching. It hasn't saved the manual in any way, its still dying a slow death, look at the GT500.

But that is the thing, ev's are not better for the enviroment. It just moves the pollution from a tail pipe. to the mining and then power plants and recycling of battery.
Ev's will REQUIRE areas on the globe that are not industrialized to become industrialized and those area will not have any enviro reg's in place.
Now id air stayed hovering over one place forever and water never evap'd and then moved with the clouds and then dumped the moisture someplace else, and oceans and seas didn't flow out of a local area. it only effect that area, but that isn't how mother nature works. So the pollution is just out of sight, out of mind. With no net gain in lowering any of the evil man made unicorn farts. As this whole farce will make whole countries industrialized without any regulations on pollution. But it'll make yuppies feel good about themselves as the sip from that latte

 

[Schwerin]

But that is the thing, ev's are not better for the enviroment. It just moves the pollution from a tail pipe. to the mining and then power plants and recycling of battery.
Ev's will REQUIRE areas on the globe that are not industrialized to become industrialized and those area will not have any enviro reg's in place.
Now id air stayed hovering over one place forever and water never evap'd and then moved with the clouds and then dumped the moisture someplace else, and oceans and seas didn't flow out of a local area. it only effect that area, but that isn't how mother nature works. So the pollution is just out of sight, out of mind. With no net gain in lowering any of the evil man made unicorn farts. As this whole farce will make whole countries industrialized without any regulations on pollution. But it'll make yuppies feel good about themselves as the sip from that latte

Thats why I said eventually. It will push the move to solar, wind, nuclear and Hydro more which are much better in the long run. Along with future battery improvements.

3rd world will ALWAYS be an issue for any industry and has always been a factor howling back 1st world countries. Thats not new, it's starting to be a growing issue as we move farther and farther from them.

A lot of people only think short sighted about NOW. Well if its not better NOW why bother? Well because in 30yrs it will be a noticeable change for the positive. Why should put money in my 401k NOW? well, because in 40+yrs it will be a huge help for my future life, and if I die? then it will help my kids. That doesn't make it pointless because I don't see returns NOW.

 

[ICU812]

Thats why I said eventually. It will push the move to solar, wind, nuclear and Hydro more which are much better in the long run. Along with future battery improvements.

3rd world will ALWAYS be an issue for any industry and has always been a factor howling back 1st world countries. Thats not new, it's starting to be a growing issue as we move farther and farther from them.

A lot of people only think short sighted about NOW. Well if its not better NOW why bother? Well because in 30yrs it will be a noticeable change for the positive. Why should put money in my 401k NOW? well, because in 40+yrs it will be a huge help for my future life, and if I die? then it will help my kids. That doesn't make it pointless because I don't see returns NOW.

The same yoyo's that will key a gas guzzler because of the enviroment. do everything in their power to stop solar,wind,nuke,hydro . So that is a pipe dream that isn't happening in my life time or most likely my kids either.
Hell, the pushed to close most of the coal powerplants, then fight tooth and nail to stop n/g pipe lines and compressor stations. as they don't want it in "THEIR " BACK YARD.
iT'S A FARCE, Pollution is like slavery it is an issue if they can see it, but if it is out of sight, no problem. As long as the retail worker at the fancy store that they buy those brand name designer geans is smiling, they could car less that some 9y/o making 10 cents a day made them. as it is out of sight, same with pollution as long as it is not near them, it will not be an issue. And why the whole thing is a farce.
Nothing but a money grab. cuz if it was about clean air, every county in the usa would have emission inspections on vehicles 15 year old or newer that makes up 90% of the national fleet, yet more than 65% of the country have zero testing. It isn't about clean air. it is about fleecing peoples wallets.

 

[Kermut]

But that is the thing, ev's are not better for the enviroment. It just moves the pollution from a tail pipe. to the mining and then power plants and recycling of battery.
Ev's will REQUIRE areas on the globe that are not industrialized to become industrialized and those area will not have any enviro reg's in place.
Now id air stayed hovering over one place forever and water never evap'd and then moved with the clouds and then dumped the moisture someplace else, and oceans and seas didn't flow out of a local area. it only effect that area, but that isn't how mother nature works. So the pollution is just out of sight, out of mind. With no net gain in lowering any of the evil man made unicorn farts. As this whole farce will make whole countries industrialized without any regulations on pollution. But it'll make yuppies feel good about themselves as the sip from that latte

I think it's hard to quantify how much 'better' EVs are for the environment as a whole, because you're right that rare earth metal is its own mess, but I don't think it's questionable that they are better from a carbon output perspective, which is what the world is concerned about at the moment. Producing electricity (even at a 'clean' coal plant) and then charging a lithium battery is much less carbon producing than the equivalent ICE engines. And as others have mentioned, there is a push to produce more wind/hydro/solar energy, or forbid we even think of it (/s), nuclear. I'm sure the last will always be a low % contributor due to the astronomical costs of plant construction/operation.

All that being said, just moving cars to EVs is a drop in the water when so many other industries are crazy polluters. Here's an article claiming that 5 cruise ships generate as much CO2 as cars for the entire continent of Europe:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/28469/carnival-cruise-ship-fleet-pollutes-almost-10-times-more-than-all-cars-in-europe-study#:~:text=Commercial cruise lines are some,million of Europe's cars combined.

Anyway yea people are going to move to EVs for cost concerns, not the environment.

 

[K4fxd]

Here's an article claiming that 5 cruise ships generate as much CO2 as cars for the entire continent of Europe:

Except Co2 is not a pollutant. Plants need it to live.

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