Testing the Limits of Your Stock Motor Coyote

[Platinum_5.0]

Love the write up and build. I've been a huge fan of all the roll races on Youtube. I also had a stock Gen 2 but with a Whipple 2.9 and for 3 years ran it at 740-870whp and 8200rpm with ZERO issues. That was also on the stock MT82. I also mostly roll raced the car but it did see some track time. Oil changes were very very frequent. I now have a 21 10R car with a 3.0 Whipple and I'm going to push it like my last car and see how it goes. Push it with care that is...lol

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[aleccesarenriquez]

That's awesome you have a manual transmission. MT-82 or did you swap it? Any issues?

Swapped to a T56 magnum xl
Had to work out some small kinks but it’s been holding out great the last couple of years.

 

[ELDiablo]

Do you think the same type of numbers could be achieved with a Whipple? I know turbos are much easier on the motor then superchargers. I’ve seen a few gen 3 cars running big numbers but not to many gen2.

 

[aleccesarenriquez]

Do you think the same type of numbers could be achieved with a Whipple? I know turbos are much easier on the motor then superchargers. I’ve seen a few gen 3 cars running big numbers but not to many gen2.

It'll of course be tougher, but anything is possible. Really just depends on how frisky you're feeling and how far you're willing to push it. Think I know of 1 gen 3 car, not sure which gen whipple in the 8s stock motor. There are more 8 second stock motor turbo cars because turbos are a more efficient platform, in a general sense (not necessarily easier on the motor).

To be honest, the point of this post wasn't to get people to chase numbers, but more so as a piece of anecdotal evidence that they can pushing their car harder than they might think, as long as they're responsible about it. Numbers they are shooting for may or may not come as a result of that.

 

[Kane]

so are you seeing Gen 3 with fuel system ,E85 , twin turbo, upgraded OPG and sprocket, RXT McLeod clutch & one piece aluminum driveshaft should easily run 800+hp without been afraid? (not planning to go close to 900HP)

I guess the only thing left is replacing the MT-82, how much it handle tho? I don't through gears hard.

also thinking to go with the same VMS wheels you have, do you advise on the beadlock ones?

 

[HKusp]

Fuel system with E85, twin turbo, TVS, twin screw, centrifugal, THE RIGHT TUNING and 800whp is VERY doable. The good tuning on E85 is key. It is pretty much like unicorn blood on managing detonation.

 

[Kane]

Fuel system with E85, twin turbo, TVS, twin screw, centrifugal, THE RIGHT TUNING and 800whp is VERY doable. The good tuning on E85 is key. It is pretty much like unicorn blood on managing detonation.

Sounds good thank you, what considered safe when it comes to spark timing?

 

[HKusp]

That's kind of a loaded question. There are a lot more factors than timing advance when it comes to safety. It depends on the strategies that the tuner employs when setting up the tables, and honestly is waaaaay above my pay grade.

 

[engineermike]

On e85 most run 20-23 deg timing depending on boost.

 

[Kane]

On e85 most run 20-23 deg timing depending on boost.

I'll check with my tuner but seems like 19 is the sweet spot

 

[Kane]

That's kind of a loaded question. There are a lot more factors than timing advance when it comes to safety. It depends on the strategies that the tuner employs when setting up the tables, and honestly is waaaaay above my pay grade.

Yah i know you are right, but at least timing & A/F ratio there's always a safe spot to run them at regardless of the other factors. For example for A/F ratio 11.2-11.5 to be safe on forced induction... well that at least what I know from my 2006 s197. Can't seem to remember the timing tho, but u got the idea.
I'm still learning jumping form that mustang to 2019 gen3 that I recently got lol.

 

[engineermike]

I'll check with my tuner but seems like 19 is the sweet spot

Maybe a subjective sweet spot for limiting cylinder pressure but mbt is a bit higher than that.

 

[Angrey]

As Mike pointed out, unless you're on crazy boost, you'll probably see at least 20 degrees (on good quality E85) without REAL knock.

However, we've all seen this movie. When they dyno it, you're going to be on great fuel, temps may be hot inside the shop, but chances are your IAT2's are going to be nice and safe because the car isn't heat soaked.

The proper way would be to "sneak up" on the max timing. You add timing, see how it responds, add another degree or two. Once you start getting diminishing returns (i.e. it's adding power by adding that next degree, but you're going from 30-35 hp jumps to like 10-15 hp) you've reached the point that adding that next bump in timing isn't worth the additional risk.

My suggestion is to see where you get to reduced improvements (probably around 21 or 22 degrees) and then back it off a couple degrees for a factor of safety. It won't totally destroy your peak number and it gives you some wiggle room for the real world where fuel gets a vote, IAT2's get a vote, the LOAD on the car (the motor suffers more stress when you actually put people in the car and the tires grip).

Everyone wants the hero dyno number, but rather than run it out to the edge (which is what most guys do), put some safety in it. Run it out, back it off a notch or two.

There's really no reason why you shouldn't be able to reach 800 rwhp with moderate timing, fairly fat fuel (.82 lambda or lower, ideally .78-.80) at OEM redline with about 19 degrees of timing. If you "fix" those parameters and simply add more boost to get there, the only controlling issue is ensuring you have adequate cooling of the boost charge (i.e. intercooling). That's a recipe for healthier use.

Can you run out to the edge and have it live? Yes, but then you need to ensure that you drive selectively. You don't hot lap it and flog it back to back to back. On a hot day, with less than perfect fuel, you keep it friendly.

But if you want a stomp it any time, anywhere setup (like the OEM's who have to warrant the motor) then back it off from the edge.

 

[HKusp]

E85 runs so much cooler than 93 IAT2's really aren't nearly as big a factor as they are when running 93 octane. The combustion event is 2-300 degrees Fahrenheit cooler on E.

 

[Kane]

As Mike pointed out, unless you're on crazy boost, you'll probably see at least 20 degrees (on good quality E85) without REAL knock.

However, we've all seen this movie. When they dyno it, you're going to be on great fuel, temps may be hot inside the shop, but chances are your IAT2's are going to be nice and safe because the car isn't heat soaked.

The proper way would be to "sneak up" on the max timing. You add timing, see how it responds, add another degree or two. Once you start getting diminishing returns (i.e. it's adding power by adding that next degree, but you're going from 30-35 hp jumps to like 10-15 hp) you've reached the point that adding that next bump in timing isn't worth the additional risk.

My suggestion is to see where you get to reduced improvements (probably around 21 or 22 degrees) and then back it off a couple degrees for a factor of safety. It won't totally destroy your peak number and it gives you some wiggle room for the real world where fuel gets a vote, IAT2's get a vote, the LOAD on the car (the motor suffers more stress when you actually put people in the car and the tires grip).

Everyone wants the hero dyno number, but rather than run it out to the edge (which is what most guys do), put some safety in it. Run it out, back it off a notch or two.

There's really no reason why you shouldn't be able to reach 800 rwhp with moderate timing, fairly fat fuel (.82 lambda or lower, ideally .78-.80) at OEM redline with about 19 degrees of timing. If you "fix" those parameters and simply add more boost to get there, the only controlling issue is ensuring you have adequate cooling of the boost charge (i.e. intercooling). That's a recipe for healthier use.

Can you run out to the edge and have it live? Yes, but then you need to ensure that you drive selectively. You don't hot lap it and flog it back to back to back. On a hot day, with less than perfect fuel, you keep it friendly.

But if you want a stomp it any time, anywhere setup (like the OEM's who have to warrant the motor) then back it off from the edge.

Thanks , yah I don't care about dyno numbers, rather be safe than sorry. Whats the temp IAT2 that I should not floor it at or be worried when it reaches?

Assuming you are talking about the gauge in the car.

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