Testing the Limits of Your Stock Motor Coyote

[aleccesarenriquez]

I frequently see builders, tuners, keyboard warriors, etc post about what coyotes can handle, whether it’s reliably, non reliably, “just 1 time”, and so on. While I understand why they are so quick to place those thresholds, people tend to blindly take it as FACT, which I feel really holds many back from their own form of success. To combat that mentality, I wanted to offer some anecdotal experience that will help you push your car in a way that I hesitate calling safe, but will definitely give you the best chance at really getting the most out of your car.

My car has gone through a few different iterations, but it’s most recent setup has lasted for about 2 years now (meaning I haven’t changed a thing; just regular maintenance). During that time, I’ve pushed the car between 16-22 psi in probably 100+ races, and maybe 200-300+ pulls. I’ve even seen 24.5 psi before doing a couple of test hits in some cold weather. All on the stock motor that I was told never to go above 16 psi in.

Here’s some data.
1080 on 18 psi
900+ on 15 psi
800+ on 12 psi
No dyno data on 20+ psi

60-130: Low 4s on a 20 psi peak (ramp starting at 12 psi)
100-150: High 3s on 20 psi

It’s not hard to replicate this.
1. Gather as much info and data as possible. Don’t always use it as law but definitely reflect on it.
2. Be patient with the build. If you rush anything, like not sending logs to your tuner or throwing on cheaper parts because you’re in a hurry, it’ll cost you.
3. Test, Test, Test. This kind of goes back to gathering information , but this takes place after the build is together. Now you work on optimizing.
4. Be smart about how you use your car. There’s no need to be doing 20+ psi pulls in traffic on a 100* day just for fun. If you use your car in a responsible way, it’ll love you for it. While I have seen 22+ psi a few times, don’t think I’m out there doing it every pull.
5. Better safe than sorry. While I am saying don’t be afraid to push your car, that doesn’t mean ignore blatant rules that aren’t worth risking. Sure 20+ psi can be done pretty consistently, but don’t be doing it on id1000s with an autozone fuel pump and 1.5” intercooler. Get your car happy, then you can ask it for some fun.

People often ask me why my car performs relatively well, especially considering it’s a manual and an 55k mile stock gen 2, and the answer is simple: I’m not afraid to push the car to its “limits”. My car isn’t an anomaly, it’s not a “factory freak” (hate that term), and I’m definitely not doing anything that hasn’t been done already. Everyone else can do the same thing I’m doing with their builds, they just mentally block themselves (or it can be financial, but if you have a twin turbo mustang making 1000hp, this shouldn’t be a concern otherwise this sport isn’t for you ). So my advice is to get out there and stop being so afraid to really test your car. You don’t need anyone to hold your hand. Start turning it up and I can almost guarantee it’ll surprise you, and all your competition

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[engineermike]

Man that’s awesome. I’m assuming e85? Any idea what spark timing numbers you’re running?

 

[aleccesarenriquez]

Man that’s awesome. I’m assuming e85? Any idea what spark timing numbers you’re running?

Yeah pump E85. Usually around 19*

 

[Cordero1]

Good info! Thank you for posting.

 

[andrewtac]

Impressive, I am probably knocking on the limits too and plan on going further once I have a built motor ready to go in. Agree with you, be smart, and test. Another is small bites, don't go from stock to 1k+. Unless known configurations.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

And track times?

 

[aleccesarenriquez]

Impressive, I am probably knocking on the limits too and plan on going further once I have a built motor ready to go in. Agree with you, be smart, and test. Another is small bites, don't go from stock to 1k+. Unless known configurations.

Yep, I always tell people it's immensely important to grow with the car. Gives you time to learn and understand it.

And track times?

It's only been roll raced, although I think a big portion of why it's been healthy so long is because rolls really don't stress the car the way digs do.

Also I know this doesn't mean my car is an 8 second car, but my car is competitive with 8 second cars when they do run on the street.

 

[Sins550]

Your car was a reason why I started turning it up. Then I got to 16psi (magic number) racing a zx14 and procharged car and it drunk half a tank of coolant lmao. To be fair though everyone else that comes out and turns it up that high and higher never had issues. Idk if it's the setup or because my car has 100k+ miles on it or it's just one of those outliers but it is what it is, learn as you go.

 

[Kennysum1]

Ran my stock gen 3 at a little over 1000 rwhp for a year before the oil pump gears gave out on me.

This is numerous drag races from a dig in Alabama heat. Broke 1200 hp rear axles.

The stock engines are beyond amazing for a stock affordable car.

Upgrading now to a built RPG short block with GT500 top end.

 

[Red5.0]

I been watching your build and videos as well. Car runs good. I had a roush blower which I removed and want to upgrade and didn’t consider going turbo until I seen your setup. You pretty much just have arp head studs and the pac1234 valve springs correct to make that power?

 

[engineermike]

I think the longevity depends largely on spark timing and OP is running fairly conservative. Most e85 cars seem to run 23+/-. Spark timing has a huge effect on peak cylinder pressure.

 

[aleccesarenriquez]

Your car was a reason why I started turning it up. Then I got to 16psi (magic number) racing a zx14 and procharged car and it drunk half a tank of coolant lmao. To be fair though everyone else that comes out and turns it up that high and higher never had issues. Idk if it's the setup or because my car has 100k+ miles on it or it's just one of those outliers but it is what it is, learn as you go.

How long had you been running it at that boost? Had your tuner reviewed everything at that power?

I been watching your build and videos as well. Car runs good. I had a roush blower which I removed and want to upgrade and didn’t consider going turbo until I seen your setup. You pretty much just have arp head studs and the pac1234 valve springs correct to make that power?

Yep, lifted the passenger head back in 2020, so threw it back together with springs and studs and she’s been running strong since then

I think the longevity depends largely on spark timing and OP is running fairly conservative. Most e85 cars seem to run 23+/-. Spark timing has a huge effect on peak cylinder pressure.

The beauty of turbos is just how easy it is to turn it up. It seems that Lund would prefer to keep the timing low and increase the boost instead. I attribute the car’s health to them big time

 

[Angrey]

Nice write and up and awesome build. Your post is a bit indicative of why the problem exists.

You say the car can handle 22+ psi and 4 digit power on a stock block, but then you list a set of constraints and restrictions. Therein lies the problem.

I always use the example: How many people can you fit on a typical jet ski? Well, if you're sitting stationary next to a dock, you could probably get 10 people or more on it. Can you do that while doing 55 mph in 3' swells? You'd be lucky to keep more than 3 people on it in those conditions.

The point is, under PERFECT conditions, ANY motor can take a lot of power (certainly a lot more than it's fielded in an OEM vehicle). The reason is because engineers know that people don't operate their vehicles PERFECTLY all the time. Also, there are other elements that get a vote. Air temp, fuel quality, etc.

The questions I ask guys when they say "how much power" is, well, how do you plan to use it?

If you're talking about a dyno queen or a 1/4 trailer queen, or something that never or rarely sees full sauce unless it's optimal DA/temps, etc, a motor or component might stand up to quite a bit of power. You're talking about very controlled conditions and very limited in what you're demanding of the car.

If you're talking about a car that will see 30 minutes of abuse around a track, continuously ripping from 3k-8k hundreds of times and heat soaked to the max, it's much different. Or if you're talking about a 1/2 mile car that will see 20+ seconds of sustained WOT full heat generation, it's a different story. Or if you're asking the car to do continuous rips to 160 mph in roll racing back to back to back with full heat load, it's MUCH different than a single dyno pull or even a single cold drag rip.

So the correct answer is, sure, a stock motor can make a boatload, if you treat it with kid gloves and you flog it smartly/sparingly.

If you want it bullet proof and mash whenever, however you want, and you're wanting a motor that you're not concerned about 100F temps or questionable fuel quality, well, it's another matter entirely. Plan and build accordingly.

 

[aleccesarenriquez]

Nice write and up and awesome build. Your post is a bit indicative of why the problem exists.

You say the car can handle 22+ psi and 4 digit power on a stock block, but then you list a set of constraints and restrictions. Therein lies the problem.

I always use the example: How many people can you fit on a typical jet ski? Well, if you're sitting stationary next to a dock, you could probably get 10 people or more on it. Can you do that while doing 55 mph in 3' swells? You'd be lucky to keep more than 3 people on it in those conditions.

The point is, under PERFECT conditions, ANY motor can take a lot of power (certainly a lot more than it's fielded in an OEM vehicle). The reason is because engineers know that people don't operate their vehicles PERFECTLY all the time. Also, there are other elements that get a vote. Air temp, fuel quality, etc.

The questions I ask guys when they say "how much power" is, well, how do you plan to use it?

If you're talking about a dyno queen or a 1/4 trailer queen, or something that never or rarely sees full sauce unless it's optimal DA/temps, etc, a motor or component might stand up to quite a bit of power. You're talking about very controlled conditions and very limited in what you're demanding of the car.

If you're talking about a car that will see 30 minutes of abuse around a track, continuously ripping from 3k-8k hundreds of times and heat soaked to the max, it's much different. Or if you're talking about a 1/2 mile car that will see 20+ seconds of sustained WOT full heat generation, it's a different story. Or if you're asking the car to do continuous rips to 160 mph in roll racing back to back to back with full heat load, it's MUCH different than a single dyno pull or even a single cold drag rip.

So the correct answer is, sure, a stock motor can make a boatload, if you treat it with kid gloves and you flog it smartly/sparingly.

If you want it bullet proof and mash whenever, however you want, and you're wanting a motor that you're not concerned about 100F temps or questionable fuel quality, well, it's another matter entirely. Plan and build accordingly.

I understand your point, but my post is targeted to those that typically ask the question, “how much will the stock motor hold?”, because they are trying to build a drag car with the most power output that their car will handle.

Of course there are other applications that aren’t drag racing related, but usually those applications aren’t at risk of blowing the motor because they are maximizing power output for the length of a drag race.

The point of my post was to essentially inform, drag racers specifically, that they are capable of squeezing more out of their car than they realize, if they just take a few extra precautions. Precautions that aren’t really game changing or unreasonable, just responsible forms of car management.

Of course the stock motor won’t handle 22+ psi during a 30 minute COTA session
I hope no one thought that I meant that it would lol

 

[Angrey]

I understand your point, but my post is targeted to those that typically ask the question, “how much will the stock motor hold?”, because they are trying to build a drag car with the most power output that their car will handle.

Of course there are other applications that aren’t drag racing related, but usually those applications aren’t at risk of blowing the motor because they are maximizing power output for the length of a drag race.

The point of my post was to essentially inform, drag racers specifically, that they are capable of squeezing more out of their car than they realize, if they just take a few extra precautions. Precautions that aren’t really game changing or unreasonable, just responsible forms of car management.

Of course the stock motor won’t handle 22+ psi during a 30 minute COTA session
I hope no one thought that I meant that it would lol

I'm just saying, I get your point, but your point also comes with "it can work, as long as you don't do x,y,z), which is kinda the crux of the issue. If you want to mash without concerns, like you do on a stock power mustang, then it won't last long after certain power levels and that's where the discussion/debate comes in.

Anyone can build a dyno queen or a teacup car that rarely sees full sauce and do it economically or with limited upgrades. But if you want a car that you don't have to run at half capability most of the time and you ONLY get to full send when it's perfect conditions and only on your birthday and Christmas, then it's true it can take it, but with a list of asterisks.

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