Summer Tire Degradation

[ChitownStang]

Hi All,
I'm looking for some advice with my Michelin PS4S tires that came on my 2021 Mach 1.
They have about 13-14k miles on them with about 6/32" tread left on them. They are the original tire and this will be their 4th summer. I've had 2 light beginner track nights on them as well where they got pretty gooey.
Last season I noticed that they do not hook anymore, from a dig I will spin through 3 gears and I can swing out the back very easily when taking a corner.
My 3 year old, 10k mile all-season Continental DWS sport tires that I use 7 months of the year are wayyy better in every aspect of grip.
So my question is, are these tires more than likely cooked even though they have plenty of tread left?
If I get new ones will 1 or 2 track nights a year ruin my new tires on the street as well?
I called Tire Rack and Michelin, Tire Rack said heat cycles make the compound harder and Michelin said it has no affect.
Side note, when I went to the track late last summer, the tire seemed to grip fine. It's on the street that they suck.

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[MAGS1]

Got any more pictures of the tread area? I see a little bit of sheen to them but it may also be the lighting.

 

[ChitownStang]

Got any more pictures of the tread area? I see a little bit of sheen to them but it may also be the lighting.

They just got pulled out of my crawl space. Here’s another pic I had.
I can take them outside when I go home for lunch.

 

[speedydave]

These tires are quite temp sensitive. If the ambient is lower than 60 down into the 50s or 40s they lose a lot of grip. Also the road surface temp may be colder too.

 

[LetItRide1978]

I had 15k miles on my PP1 and had 5-6/32 of tread left on all 4 tires and traction was getting pretty bad, even in warmer weather. My car also sat in the garage for 4 winters over that time so age and exposure to cold temps have been a factor as well.

 

[DopamineQuest]

I just replaced my 18k mile PS4S', and mine seemed to be doing what they've always done. Any temperature under 70 degrees though, and the traction was noticeably worse. Around 50 degrees and I'd be spinning at 75 mph in 3rd, but in actual summer temps, they felt fine. Can't comment on low end traction, the car has never been able to go full power under 60 mph lol.

 

[ChitownStang]

My issue is not from cold, I understand that summer tires suck when it's colder out.

 

[sms2022]

I had to burn off an oxidized layer from my tires but then they gripped fine. They are date coded 2022.

 

[MAGS1]

Given that it’s the 4th summer and you’re approaching 15k miles on them, the compounds are likely just starting to break down. Not the first I’ve heard of the PS4S not making to their full stated mileage from a warranty perspective. Getting them hot on track will still allow the compounds to do their thing, but it’s really hard to get them up to that temp on street (unless you do a couple quick burnouts). I would honestly try that, do a little burnout to get them hot and see how they do driving around on the street.

Otherwise, they’re probably just wearing out unfortunately. Good thing is, if you fully rotate them (i.e square setup), Michelin has a 30k mileage warranty on them, so you’ll get a prorated amount of $$ towards a new set of tires. If you’re staggered, 15k is the stated warranty mileage.

 

[robvas]

These tires are quite temp sensitive. If the ambient is lower than 60 down into the 50s or 40s they lose a lot of grip. Also the road surface temp may be colder too.

It's funny how there is like a 6-7 degree window between like 54 and 61 degrees (or something) where my tires can go from no grip to normal grip

 

[MAGS1]

It's funny how there is like a 6-7 degree window between like 54 and 61 degrees (or something) where my tires can go from no grip to normal grip

Yep, just shows how sensitive some of these compounds really are.

 

[sms2022]

It's funny how there is like a 6-7 degree window between like 54 and 61 degrees (or something) where my tires can go from no grip to normal grip

Yep my supersports are a controlled drift in 55 degree temps. In 65 degree temps it’s more like a very slow, sticky slide

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

Hi All,
I'm looking for some advice with my Michelin PS4S tires that came on my 2021 Mach 1.
They have about 13-14k miles on them with about 6/32" tread left on them. They are the original tire and this will be their 4th summer. I've had 2 light beginner track nights on them as well where they got pretty gooey.

So my question is, are these tires more than likely cooked even though they have plenty of tread left?

It's possible. Tire compounds tend to be affected by heat cycles, and also have a limit on their shelf life before they lose grip.

Last season I noticed that they do not hook anymore, from a dig I will spin through 3 gears and I can swing out the back very easily when taking a corner.
My 3 year old, 10k mile all-season Continental DWS sport tires that I use 7 months of the year are wayyy better in every aspect of grip.

The Michelins and Continentals probably age at different rates. If you look at the treadwear ratings on the tires, do the Continentals have a higher number? If so, they're supposed to outlast the Michelins, while the Michelins were supposed to have more grip when new.
("Supposed to" comes with caveats, but gives you the general idea)

If I get new ones will 1 or 2 track nights a year ruin my new tires on the street as well?
I called Tire Rack and Michelin, Tire Rack said heat cycles make the compound harder and Michelin said it has no affect.
Side note, when I went to the track late last summer, the tire seemed to grip fine. It's on the street that they suck.

Most tires harden and lose grip with heat cycles. I can't think why these Michelins would be an exception.

I bet when you were at the track, in summer, you had no trouble keeping the tires warm. They were probably in their intended temperature range. As far North as you are, instead of being 5-month-a-year tires, maybe they should be track day tires.

 

[MAGS1]

As far North as you are, instead of being 5-month-a-year tires, maybe they should be track day tires.

Temps here basically from this time of year through October are warm enough for a PS4S, Conti ECS, etc. I run the Conti ECS and have no problems with grip, although mine are newer and have less miles on them compared to OP. Average temp this time of year is right about 60F as an FYI.

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

Temps here basically from this time of year through October are warm enough for a PS4S, Conti ECS, etc. I run the Conti ECS and have no problems with grip, although mine are newer and have less miles on them compared to OP. Average temp this time of year is right about 60F as an FYI.

Perhaps the OPs tires have aged out by time or track cycles, then.
I wonder if they'd be good at one more track night.

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