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student debt forgiveness is back

sk47

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thanks a lot! Boomer's have been kicking that can for the last 50 years because of that exact mindset. The bill always comes due.

There's the whole ethics discussion of selling your yet unborn progeny into forced servitude and privation just to avoid having to face the economic reality of today. What did they do to rack up the bills? Nothing. Talk about visiting forcible injury on the 100% innocent.
Hello; Allow me to plead the case for at least one boomer, myself. I finished my undergrad work in 1970. I had planed to work in Biology so took the needed courses. Wound up taking a teaching job to support my first wife and start to pay off my debts. By the mid 1970's there was enough information about what was likely to happen with the environment to make some good guesses. So after some discussion with my first wife I decided to have a vasectomy. I was around 25 years old.

I cannot say the student loan debt was one of the things I had figured on specifically. I was more focused on the exponential growth of the human population and the coming impacts. Of course there were economic problems caused by governments back then also. Anyway I did not wish to bring a child into what was very likely to be a bad situation. Some for the sake of the child and some for the more general sake of the general population. I was in favor of things such as ZPG (zero population growth), conservation and recycling.
I sometimes put it this way in conversations about these things. At least the children I did not have are not competing for resources with the children who are now alive. That no offspring of my own are around to inherit the ongoing legacy of human endeavor is perhaps the only real positive outcome. Plenty of others procreated in sufficient numbers to more than make up the difference.
Don't know how any of you will take this information. There has been a wide range of reactions from others, even ridicule. Does not matter to me any longer and has not for some time. There were a few times when I had doubts about my choice to be childless. In the fullness of time those doubts are gone. Things are as bad and in some cases worse than I had estimated. Some completely unexpected outcomes along the way that are also bad news.

I guess the only thing of much surprise to me is that it has taken a much longer time frame to happen than expected. At least twenty years longer. Will things hold together in a decent manner for 30 more years? I do not know. Right now I do doubt it. But I have been wrong on the time frame before.
Both environmentally and economically things seem to be at tipping points. Hard to say when or which will be the more troubling. Likely both will be worse soon enough. I am 73 so do not need so much more time.

By the way there were a number of other old boomers who kept their offspring numbers to replacement. Two adults = two children thus ZPG. A few were like me and had none. I do agree not enough of us did the right thing, else we would not be in the pickle we find ourselves in today.
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FreePenguin

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You are right but I really think I could clear the debt now. And that would save 60k in future interest, that means I could invest the next 6
I reality that’s the opposite of what you want to do. If money loses value, borrowing the most amount you possibly could and paying it back in depreciated dollars later you be the path. Spending those dollars today on assets that won’t depreciate would be the way to build wealth.

I understand though and also hate debt.
you are completely correct, but to me I would feel safer having my house paid off, and having the absolute lowest monthly bills possible. I really think I could finish the payments in that time frame, then whatever $ I would of lost in interest, I could toss at stocks and try to make profit.

either way, there's no way around it. we are going to be having inflation set in soon. I don't even see a housing crash happening either, I don't know how its all going to play out. we will probably be bailing out all the people who are refusing to pay rent, and on the unemployment too.

I have a relative who is making more than they've ever had, and refusing to pay the landlord, just stockpiling the money. absolute trash.
 

shogun32

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I think I am going to try and pay off the remaining 138k of my mortgage in next 3 years
actually it's to your advantage to pay the mortagage as slowly as possible. Because every day you're paying it back with ever more worthless currency and the contract (nee Mortgage) doesn't have a clause that allows the bank to change your interest rate or adjust the outstanding balance owed in light of rapidly worsening currency. The bank took a risk a dollar in 30 years time was going to be worth ~same as a dollar today. As the printing presses go into hyperdrive that whole assumption falls apart spectacularly.

That said, there is something to be said for having no debt obligations at all.
 

sk47

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hello; I cannot grab quotes for posts and use them like before. I get an oops. We ran into some problems message. Try again later. I have tried later several times. Who do i see about this?
 

Medsport

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geezus man, were you a med student? It should be well within everyone's reach to pay off student loans in 3-5 years. More than that the debt must be at eyewatering levels.
Well kind of. I actually went the 2nd time for an associates in accounting (first it was CAD, but that didn't work out either. I never even got an interview for an accounting job and was delivering pizza at the time so I wasn't making much money. Went thru a divorce and decided to give Nursing a try. I was stupid and took my sisters advice to borrow extra money to live off of that way I could cut back to part time work and concentrate on school the last year or so. WE were under the misguided assumption we could get a job at a hospital and they would pay off the school loans, but found out they only did it for RN's around here. I did get my LPN, but back then they didn't pay very good just starting out. So in essence I was paying for 4 years of college. Only in the past few years, have I started to make some decent money and get my credit cards and such paid off for awhile. My main loan was for 20 years and the smaller one was for 10. I've only been paying the min. and declared forbearance a few times several years ago when times were lean and that didn't help as interest continues to accrue.
 

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Briebee72

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so I see the biggest argument is not my tax money. OK I get it. but most all the solutions people have suggested are all tax money based as well. grants, programs, tuitions ( yes colleges get reimbursements with tax breaks) minority scholarships, military service... and so on. All tax money based so how is using those options any different then the government just forgiving it? either way you are screwed out of tax dollars. bankruptcy, would be the same as forgiveness cause would still not be paying back tax funded loans. So who has a solution that does not in some form or fashion come from tax money?

Someone posted the student debt load earlier.. I don't think people realize what a issue this has become, we can all argue this and that and who should of or should not have gotten loans and what ever but the fact remains they are there its real. so what is the solution other then pitch forks and battle cry's of I'm not paying it for them?

I mean it is getting to where average rents are into the thousands, food bills for the month are 1/3rd of most peoples paychecks. unless you live in a downtown you have to have a car there are car payments, utilities, kids, and so on. its getting to where just to live every month is more then 70% of Americans make.

We can all sit here and argue and have our opinions but I think people need to realize it is more then a student loan issue. sooner or later its all gonna crash because everything is getting out of reach. where I live the average car payment is now 580 a month (a national statistic I read and yes I know you can buy a ued car), affordable housing is considered rent on a one bedroom at 1500 a month.. I mean you are talking 2k and you haven't even eaten yet. insurance both car and health, food, utilities, kids needs and so on. It is too the point that to live in my area even in the rural parts is getting to be 3k a month to just make the basics. then consider the median income in my area is 28k a year.... its not hard to see people just cant do it. its got nothing to do with lazy or freeloaders. and you cant hate people for trying to get a better life with a degree. People are just trapped. The real problem is the colleges being left to screw everyone so maybe focus the hate there instead of the borrowers?

so really without any more childish back and forth ( im including myself) what is the solution other then let the borrows sink?

so how long until a housing bail out? again in my area houses and i mean total garbage houses built 60 years ago are on market for 350k plus ( in an area with a median income of 28k remind you) rents are into the thousands... people got to have shelter. people are hitting walls to where they just cant afford these prices anymore. so what happens if there is a government tax dollar payout on mortgages? got to remember 50% of all housing loans are just like student loans and government tax dollar backed. what happens when that gets to the breaking point?

and what do you think will happen if this 15 dollar minimum goes through? its gonna be crazy. cause i can promise the prices of everything will go up again because big business is out to take every dollar you got. plus the resentment much like the loans... if all your minimum wage coworkers get a 7 dollar bump in pay per hour but you were already making 15 dollars an hour you are gonna want a 7 dollar bump as well. and guess what they aint gonna give that to you so there's gonna be that same resentment of someone got and I didnt as with these loans. I predict lots of people quitting jobs over it. between wage hikes, loans payed off and possible housing crash all involving tax dollars and tax breaks.. gonna be a lot of pissed off tax payers I guess...

and since we in a mustang forum how many of you getting a mach-e? how many of you gonna take that 7500 dollar tax check, other people tax money you didnt earn and they did, to pay for your car? how do you ones not getting the mach-e feel about paying 7500 dollars off on someone elses car? this craps everywhere .
 

Strokerswild

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actually it's to your advantage to pay the mortagage as slowly as possible. Because every day you're paying it back with ever more worthless currency and the contract (nee Mortgage) doesn't have a clause that allows the bank to change your interest rate or adjust the outstanding balance owed in light of rapidly worsening currency. The bank took a risk a dollar in 30 years time was going to be worth ~same as a dollar today. As the printing presses go into hyperdrive that whole assumption falls apart spectacularly.

That said, there is something to be said for having no debt obligations at all.
Meh. There's more than just something to be said for no debt obligations. I became debt free on 2/1/21 at the ripe old age of 51, when I paid off my properties. It's a great, yet strange, feeling. I'll bet I'll get used to it though. No matter what happens, my home is exactly that - mine.

I 'blame' becoming debt free on Covid and ADMs on GT500s. In early March of last year, I was gung-ho on buying a GT500. A couple of days worth of calls to dealers revealed that it wasn't going to happen without an ADM. Screw them, to put it politely. Nearly simultaneously, Covid knocked the wind out of my employer's sails and we got our wages cut 25%. Time to batten down the hatches. Pay went back to normal around the holidays, but the light at the end of the tunnel was near. I have a ~$10K patio/landscaping project that got put on hold last summer that will resume in the spring. Meanwhile, it's time to save some cash and jack up the 401k contributions. Things should be looking pretty decent when the '22 ordering guides come around. Assuming I don't say to hell with the car and just buy more property.

Now, back to bickering about people wanting the debt they signed up for being forgiven.....
 

HoosierDaddy

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forget to pay your property taxes. You'll find out you're only just renting it from the local principality.
Everyone knows that unless they were absent the day school showed the Brady Bunch Movie.

At least the worst jurisdictions are getting clamped down on abuses. Detroit was auctioning homes for as little as $8 overdue taxes and pocketing the entire sale price. Now the arrears must be significant and the owner gets the sale price minus the taxes.

Hmmm. Wondering if this might be a way to avoid broker fees selling a house. Don't pay your property tax and see how high the bids go. If just low-balls, buy it yourself and sell it the usual way.
 

sk47

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Quote Briebee72 "bankruptcy, would be the same as forgiveness cause would still not be paying back tax funded loans."
Hello; Not quite the same things. With forgiveness the borrower goes on about their lives as normal, just without debt. With bankruptcy the borrower has penalties. Credit scores affected, restrictions on being able to take out loans for a time and such. Perhaps even some obligation to pay a portion of the debt depending on their overall financial situation. These penalties ought to encourage those who can pay to not take a bankruptcy.

Quote Briebee72 "its getting to where just to live every month is more then 70% of Americans make."
Hello; Yes the cost of living is a problem for ordinary taxpayers, yet you favor adding the just debt of others onto their already financially burdened shoulders. Sure some of the folks who took out student loans are struggling, but so are many of those whom you wish to send the bill to.

Quote Briebee72 "its not hard to see people just cant do it. its got nothing to do with lazy or freeloaders. and you cant hate people for trying to get a better life with a degree. People are just trapped. The real problem is the colleges being left to screw everyone so maybe focus the hate there instead of the borrowers?"
Hello; I do not hate the borrower. Nor do I blame them for trying to get a better life. Had an uncle who took a chance and invested in a coal mine back during a boom in the 1970's. He lost everything he invested. For some the investment in college pays off, for others it does not.
Some folks start a business instead of going to college. Some of those businesses do well and some go bust.

Quote Briebee72 "what is the solution other then let the borrows sink?"
Hello; The way it looks, the only solution you favor is forgiveness and reject all others. So if forgiveness is the only thing on the table then I would vote no.
 

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FreePenguin

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Meh. There's more than just something to be said for no debt obligations. I became debt free on 2/1/21 at the ripe old age of 51, when I paid off my properties. It's a great, yet strange, feeling. I'll bet I'll get used to it though. No matter what happens, my home is exactly that - mine.

I 'blame' becoming debt free on Covid and ADMs on GT500s. In early March of last year, I was gung-ho on buying a GT500. A couple of days worth of calls to dealers revealed that it wasn't going to happen without an ADM. Screw them, to put it politely. Nearly simultaneously, Covid knocked the wind out of my employer's sails and we got our wages cut 25%. Time to batten down the hatches. Pay went back to normal around the holidays, but the light at the end of the tunnel was near. I have a ~$10K patio/landscaping project that got put on hold last summer that will resume in the spring. Meanwhile, it's time to save some cash and jack up the 401k contributions. Things should be looking pretty decent when the '22 ordering guides come around. Assuming I don't say to hell with the car and just buy more property.

Now, back to bickering about people wanting the debt they signed up for being forgiven.....
That’s what I’m thinking, I can’t predict future or my job stability but at the moment I can really chunk massive payments. If house was paid off, all I would owe is 200 month propert tax. And 50 energy, 50 water, 50 gas and 60 internet so 410 a month.

that’s manageable. Lol I have a room mate I charge 500 off of.
 
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Strokerswild

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That’s what I’m thinking, I can’t predict future or my job stability but at the moment I can really chunk massive payments. If house was paid off, all I would owe is 200 month propert tax. And 50 energy, 50 water, 50 gas and 60 internet so 460 a month.

that’s manageable. Lol I have a room mate I charge 500 off of.
Back in 2003, the company I worked for went belly-up, and I had a mortgage and a car payment, and it was rough for a bit but I made it. When things were looking possibly grim last year as I mentioned, it was hauntingly familiar and ALL non-essential expenses were off the table and the focus was my only debt, property.
 

FreePenguin

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Back in 2003, the company I worked for went belly-up, and I had a mortgage and a car payment, and it was rough for a bit but I made it. When things were looking possibly grim last year as I mentioned, it was hauntingly familiar and ALL non-essential expenses were off the table and the focus was my only debt, property.
I am going to pay my car off in next 4 months, be done with that monthly bill. I wouldn’t of honestly bought it at full price (34k msrp) but got it was 2 year leftover at 23k otd. 21.6k before tax

but that added strain to my life the last year or two. I should of had it paid off already
 

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Try following the threads. Bit of light humor. I've moved on. I like sk47's posts.
Man, good thing you were kidding. :like:

I was like,......who wants to pay more taxes?!?! lol
They would have to be mentally disabled. LOL
 
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Just read on MSN news that Biden not likely to sign $50,000 forgiveness by executive order. $10,000 still on table. Senate Majority leader, Schumer is still pushing the big ticket 50G. On a related topic, I hope persons receiving stimulus cks are paying down their rent first-- but wait a minute --we have rent forgiveness (moratorium) currently so why do that when you cannot be evicted. Hopefully nobody is offended but it is the right thing to do. I am being sarcastic of course people should use money to pay rent, but will they?
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