student debt forgiveness is back

[shogun32]

A possible come back from the pro forgiveness side of the issue might be that those who do not have to borrow must be wealthy

which is the naive "gimme" attitude. Plenty of poor people have pursued degrees without leaning on race-based discrimination.

If Congress wants to do the entire population a solid, they revoke the law that made education debt non-dischargeable. Let me restate that for those who don't understand. Congress passed a law that made YOU (student) an indentured SLAVE to the banks for the life of the loan. How nice of them, eh?

Everyone who can't afford their bills declares bankruptcy and they go thru the time-tested process of shedding debt. The bankers get it crammed up their keisters and the issuance of loans for education comes to an abrupt, screeching halt. Colleges that got fat wildly distorting their compensation and budget go bust big time as they should. They too go thru bankruptcy and the whole education system goes thru a painful but desperately needed reset and re-focus on actual education and not diploma-milling. Millions of young adults can now afford tuition while working part time during the year and FT during the summer. If they can't then they go join the workforce with a HS diploma which (assuming you actually applied yourself in HS) is more than adequate to find gainful employment.

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[sk47]

which is the naive "gimme" attitude. Plenty of poor people have pursued degrees without leaning on race-based discrimination.

If Congress wants to do the entire population a solid, they revoke the law that made education debt non-dischargeable. Let me restate that for those who don't understand. Congress passed a law that made YOU (student) an indentured SLAVE to the banks for the life of the loan. How nice of them, eh?

Everyone who can't afford their bills declares bankruptcy and they go thru the time-tested process of shedding debt. The bankers get it crammed up their keisters and the issuance of loans for education comes to an abrupt, screeching halt. Colleges that got fat wildly distorting their compensation and budget go bust big time as they should. They too go thru bankruptcy and the whole education system goes thru a painful but desperately needed reset and re-focus on actual education and not diploma-milling. Millions of young adults can now afford tuition while working part time during the year and FT during the summer. If they can't then they go join the workforce with a HS diploma which (assuming you actually applied yourself in HS) is more than adequate to find gainful employment.

Hello; This actually sounds workable after a quick read. May be among the better ideas presented. I guess there could be unintended consequences to pop up. Perhaps some brain storming on the idea is in order.
I can come up with a political based reason or two why this would not be popular with those in power. The banks and colleges with pull would scream out against it I imagine. Not sure which voter base the idea could appeal to, so there could be a group of politicians against it.

While at first blush bankruptcy might sound like giving those with student loan debt an easy way out, I am not so sure. Bankruptcy caries some bad personal effects on those who take that route. I have not done bankruptcy myself but have known some who do. It can take years to get back to normal financially, so may not be taken lightly.

Not sure how the banks and other financial houses would fight back. No doubt they would have some moves but I cannot come up with good guesses right now. A weak guess might be that some how they get their problems pushed onto taxpayers like they did back in 2008.

Have to do some more thinking or maybe just wait for the rest of you to add thoughts.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

........Everyone who can't afford their bills declares bankruptcy and they go thru the time-tested process of shedding debt. The bankers get it crammed up their keisters

The taxpayer is the banker who would get it crammed up their keister for 92% of the student loans:

2020 Student Loan Debt Statistics - NerdWallet

 

[shogun32]

The taxpayer is the banker who would get it crammed up their keister for 92% of the student loans:

2020 Student Loan Debt Statistics - NerdWallet

holy crap.
Total outstanding federal student loan debt: $1.54 trillion
Total outstanding private student loan debt: $131.81 billion

I didn't realize things had gotten so completely unhinged. Well, tell ya what 'students' we'll cancel your "stimulus" checks (promised 2000, now 1400) and the general Build-Back-Better nonsense and just zero that entire account in one swoop. Fair? The Treasury at Congress demand is counterfeiting a couple trillion dollars a year anyway. I'm surprised the IRS isn't garnishing wages of everyone with a 'federal' student loan.

And immediately terminate any and all federal funding of loans, no stopgap, nothing. And ditto that abomination called Fannie and Freddie. When the gov't gets involved in personal finance it ALWAYS ends in utter disaster.

 

[sk47]

The taxpayer is the banker who would get it crammed up their keister for 92% of the student loans:

2020 Student Loan Debt Statistics - NerdWallet

Hello; Did a quick read and the one thing which stood out is the total default rate.
"Total default rate: 9.7% " An average I suppose?
If this particular number is accurate then less that 10% of those holding debt are not making the payments. Have I missed something?

So if the bankruptcy notion is applied then around ten percent might apply. Of course so much would depend on the details so I do not take heart just yet. I get that the politicians could rig it so the cost falls onto the taxpayers since we have evidence of such doings in the not very long ago past.
Devil is always in the details. This bankruptcy idea so far sounds better that a blanket debt forgiveness of lump sums to all debt holders. Lump sums to all debt holders would put money into the pockets of the 90% who can pay currently. Lump sums would also no be fair to those who paid their way without debt or who have already paid off the loans they owed.

I do not lose sight of how the politicians may rig things with "stick it to the general taxpayer" being a much too common approach. Banks, big finance houses and big colleges all have clout with the politicians. I do not dismiss your skepticism.

On another thought, the bankruptcy idea could do one thing if structured properly. That being only those directly involved need to be involved. The banks, the colleges and the individuals with the debt.

 

[shogun32]

Have I missed something?

yes, huge swaths aren't making ANY payments and aren't being counted as in default. Yet. The forbearance terms are so far out in left field they're in right field.

 

[sk47]

yes, huge swaths aren't making ANY payments and aren't being counted as in default. Yet. The forbearance terms are so far out in left field they're in right field.

Hello; Ok I saw the forbearance numbers but did not attach proper significance to them. My mistake. Thanks.

 

[shogun32]

Beyond that I could care less.

thanks a lot! Boomer's have been kicking that can for the last 50 years because of that exact mindset. The bill always comes due.

There's the whole ethics discussion of selling your yet unborn progeny into forced servitude and privation just to avoid having to face the economic reality of today. What did they do to rack up the bills? Nothing. Talk about visiting forcible injury on the 100% innocent.

 

[Stage_3]

Once we cut off education, like many of you are suggesting, where do we get the brain power to work the new jobs that are coming (well, here)? Still dreaming manufacturing will return?

Can't continue to do nothing and expect different results. Do we wait for the implosion like we did the housing industry? Everyone knew that was going to end bad... just not when.



It was a joke... but now that you mention it... let me allow you to learn something new today. You will like it... a lot of text and links. All jokes side, you take this stuff way too seriously... it is a forum. I enjoy reading your posts.

Here is the new stuff:

Me Generation: The "Me" generation is a term referring to Baby Boomers in the United States and the self-involved qualities that some people associate with it

Baby Boomers selfish sociopaths: “This is how our parents became the most selfish generation”, “All of our social cues are telling us to be selfish right now. Baby Boomers love this because it means they do not have to consider the needs of others, or sacrifice for anyone outside their immediate networks.


Me generation earning its selfish reputation: Baby boomer the “Me Generation” earning its selfish reputation in the hedonistic 1970s and its greed-is-good image in the materialistic 1980s.

I'm a bit confused about the "selfish" bit you keep throwing around.
I'm supposed to give out more of the paycheck that I work for? I don't think that's called selfish. I call it working for a living.
I always thought people wanted to keep more of their paychecks, not less?

 

[FreePenguin]

yeah.. I have zero interest in helping the people who pulled debt and can't pay it off.
I don't see any reason or rationale on how people are okay with pushing this agenda.
its just a repulsive excuse to try and change over to socialism to help those 10% of people who ruin it for everyone.

brb. my 100 dollars earned will be worth 50 in next 5 years.
I think I am going to try and pay off the remaining 138k of my mortgage in next 3 years, so I won't have any debt and can try to lower my monthly cost as much as I can so when our money sucks, at least I have bare minimum bills

 

[jtmat]

I'm a bit confused about the "selfish" bit you keep throwing around.
I'm supposed to give out more of the paycheck that I work for? I don't think that's called selfish.

Try following the threads. Bit of light humor. I've moved on. I like sk47's posts.

Colleges are nothing but businesses. Same as hospitals and any other institutions, in my opinion. Again, that's my opinion. It's not about making people smarter, it's about collecting the dollar bills. Kids have to have someone REALLY explain to them how much and how long their loans are going to last. I blame the parents a lot. They should be more involved with their kid's choices when it comes to spending that amount of money.
Nothing we can say or do will change anyways. As long as you got the government involved, it's doomed. lol

It is a business. College/education is a huge business. It is around 5 or 6% of GDP.

People normally focus on debt or what this means for them and not education as income. Big money in education. I worked education and seen how some of it works behind the scenes. It can get nasty, like most business. Majority of people are there to help.

Many of these parents can't help. It is like blaming the parents if the parents only drove automatics and the kid does not know how to drive a stick.

Plus, many might be like me and went late. Neither of my parents went to traditional college (dad went to college in the Army, on base). I know my dad did not know the process because I also went to college on a military base. I also signed up directly at school for undergrad and grad school.

The money part of the process is more or less like buying a car. You don't know the exact amount until you are almost done. Being focused on school and the such.

I get blaming the parent, if a parent failed, but there are so many situations that it is not a main argument. In my opinion. It is a valid argument.

I've seen a number simply fail out because they can't afford it, have mental issues, etc. Popular on this site to say "they are poor dirt bags, who are stupid for signing and never wanted to go, partied to their grade demise, no direction, etc." We definitely had those, but those were the exception, not the rule.

Most people are one major illness, even if temporary, from ruining their lives, for example. I've been there too.

Hello; I get you argue for student loan debt forgiveness and have your reasons. Put that aside for a time. Lets stay on the issues of a college education needing to be fixed for a post or two.

Student debt forgiveness, specifically to some programs already in place? Yes.

For example, I know a deep red state, deep country, where we have a program for doctors. The program setup where doctors can work in town for "X" amount off their loan (or maybe free, not sure). Without that elderly people would more than likely go without good healthcare. These docs cycle in every 3 to 5 years.

These type of state programs have already been discussed so nothing new here.

Dropping 50k cash on student loans? Can't say I'm for that one. Seems excessive IMO.

I need to see some proposals before outright discounting a program. As I've said, both Dems and Rep are behind this so I need to see what they agree on. See if really an issue.

Say in some manner all federal student loan debt is forgiven next month. That does something for those with the debt, but how does that "fix" anything? Will the colleges somehow decide to lower their fees? What would their incentive be? The colleges will already have had the money in their very healthy accounts so they do not give up anything.
So next September when school terms start what is to happen. Will the students then sign up for new loans? Under what sort of terms could there be? Say a person who graduates from high school this spring is planning to go to college next fall. Will they be told the loan forgiveness is only for the those already graduated and the new students will have to repay the loans the take out?

I have more on my mind but lets hash these questions out a bit.

Good luck in hashing out those questions. I've asked the same type earlier, but we have people making comments who have never read anything about it. All they know is Biden = bad. lol

 

[sk47]

thanks a lot! Boomer's have been kicking that can for the last 50 years because of that exact mindset. The bill always comes due.

There's the whole ethics discussion of selling your yet unborn progeny into forced servitude and privation just to avoid having to face the economic reality of today. What did they do to rack up the bills? Nothing. Talk about visiting forcible injury on the 100% innocent.

Hello; Allow me to plead the case for at least one boomer, myself. I finished my undergrad work in 1970. I had planed to work in Biology so took the needed courses. Wound up taking a teaching job to support my first wife and start to pay off my debts. By the mid 1970's there was enough information about what was likely to happen with the environment to make some good guesses. So after some discussion with my first wife I decided to have a vasectomy. I was around 25 years old.

I cannot say the student loan debt was one of the things I had figured on specifically. I was more focused on the exponential growth of the human population and the coming impacts. Of course there were economic problems caused by governments back then also. Anyway I did not wish to bring a child into what was very likely to be a bad situation. Some for the sake of the child and some for the more general sake of the general population. I was in favor of things such as ZPG (zero population growth), conservation and recycling.
I sometimes put it this way in conversations about these things. At least the children I did not have are not competing for resources with the children who are now alive. That no offspring of my own are around to inherit the ongoing legacy of human endeavor is perhaps the only real positive outcome. Plenty of others procreated in sufficient numbers to more than make up the difference.
Don't know how any of you will take this information. There has been a wide range of reactions from others, even ridicule. Does not matter to me any longer and has not for some time. There were a few times when I had doubts about my choice to be childless. In the fullness of time those doubts are gone. Things are as bad and in some cases worse than I had estimated. Some completely unexpected outcomes along the way that are also bad news.

I guess the only thing of much surprise to me is that it has taken a much longer time frame to happen than expected. At least twenty years longer. Will things hold together in a decent manner for 30 more years? I do not know. Right now I do doubt it. But I have been wrong on the time frame before.
Both environmentally and economically things seem to be at tipping points. Hard to say when or which will be the more troubling. Likely both will be worse soon enough. I am 73 so do not need so much more time.

By the way there were a number of other old boomers who kept their offspring numbers to replacement. Two adults = two children thus ZPG. A few were like me and had none. I do agree not enough of us did the right thing, else we would not be in the pickle we find ourselves in today.

 

[FreePenguin]

You are right but I really think I could clear the debt now. And that would save 60k in future interest, that means I could invest the next 6

I reality that’s the opposite of what you want to do. If money loses value, borrowing the most amount you possibly could and paying it back in depreciated dollars later you be the path. Spending those dollars today on assets that won’t depreciate would be the way to build wealth.

I understand though and also hate debt.

you are completely correct, but to me I would feel safer having my house paid off, and having the absolute lowest monthly bills possible. I really think I could finish the payments in that time frame, then whatever $ I would of lost in interest, I could toss at stocks and try to make profit.

either way, there's no way around it. we are going to be having inflation set in soon. I don't even see a housing crash happening either, I don't know how its all going to play out. we will probably be bailing out all the people who are refusing to pay rent, and on the unemployment too.

I have a relative who is making more than they've ever had, and refusing to pay the landlord, just stockpiling the money. absolute trash.

 

[shogun32]

I think I am going to try and pay off the remaining 138k of my mortgage in next 3 years

actually it's to your advantage to pay the mortagage as slowly as possible. Because every day you're paying it back with ever more worthless currency and the contract (nee Mortgage) doesn't have a clause that allows the bank to change your interest rate or adjust the outstanding balance owed in light of rapidly worsening currency. The bank took a risk a dollar in 30 years time was going to be worth ~same as a dollar today. As the printing presses go into hyperdrive that whole assumption falls apart spectacularly.

That said, there is something to be said for having no debt obligations at all.

 

[sk47]

hello; I cannot grab quotes for posts and use them like before. I get an oops. We ran into some problems message. Try again later. I have tried later several times. Who do i see about this?

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