Strange and frustrating issue here

[gssteele]

2019 Mustang GT

So, I had the Roush Phase 1 installed on my car in 2019 shortly after I bought it by the same dealer I bought the car from. No issues, all was well.

I upgraded to the phase 2 about 6 months ago, and now the 36 month warranty is up, so I thought I'd go for a custom tune.

Bought the brand new HP Tuners MPVI3 and the credits. Read the current strategy and sent off to the tuner. Got the custom tune and every time I try to flash the car, it downloads the boot loader, erases the existing tune, and then fails with an x7f error - Writer failure. Each time, I have to restore the Roush tune using VCM Editor. Fortunately, that works.

I have a ticket open with HP Tuners, and they are telling me I need to flash the car back to stock and let the tuner work from that image as opposed to the Roush supplied tune that the dealer put on.

Problem is - the dealer doesn't have the original tune from three years ago, and no one ever gave it to me back when I had it done.

Has anyone else had this issue with trying to flash over a Roush tune? Not even sure what to do now.

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[mejohn50]

I spend quite a bit of time on the HP Tuners forum and I haven’t see any major issues with flashing a modified Roush tune file. The first thing I’d do is load the default Roush tune and then completely wipe and reinstall the HPT VCM suite/MPVI drivers then try again. It probably won’t fix the issue, but it’s an easy troubleshooting step.

You could also go to your dealer and have them flash a stock tune to the car with their Ford equipment, you could then read that file with HPT, then load the default Roush file with HPT to get back home. That way you’d have a stock file for the car to send to the tuner, but I’m not sure how they are handling the stuff that is enabled in the Roush OS but not in the stock OS. That’s a conversation to have with your tuner before going through all that.

 

[gssteele]

I spend quite a bit of time on the HP Tuners forum and I haven’t see any major issues with flashing a modified Roush tune file. The first thing I’d do is load the default Roush tune and then completely wipe and reinstall the HPT VCM suite/MPVI drivers then try again. It probably won’t fix the issue, but it’s an easy troubleshooting step.

You could also go to your dealer and have them flash a stock tune to the car with their Ford equipment, you could then read that file with HPT, then load the default Roush file with HPT to get back home. That way you’d have a stock file for the car to send to the tuner, but I’m not sure how they are handling the stuff that is enabled in the Roush OS but not in the stock OS. That’s a conversation to have with your tuner before going through all that.

Thanks, Mitch. I will try all of what you suggested.

 

[engineermike]

One other easy test is to flash it with the tune you read out of it. If that works, make one simple change to it and try that. If that works, then your tuner is doing something to mess it up. Maybe he’s sending you a completely different strategy.

 

[gssteele]

One other easy test is to flash it with the tune you read out of it. If that works, make one simple change to it and try that. If that works, then your tuner is doing something to mess it up. Maybe he’s sending you a completely different strategy.

That is a great idea. I will try that. Thank you.

 

[Jackson1320]

you have a tuner that is willing to tune you with a mpvi3 ?

 

[gssteele]

you have a tuner that is willing to tune you with a mpvi3 ?

Are there problems with the device? That would explain a lot.

 

[engineermike]

Are there problems with the device? That would explain a lot.

Not as far as I know. What he’s saying is that most “big name tuners” use rtd not mvpi3. Mvpi3 allows you to see exactly what the tuner did to the tune.

My view is that for non-tuners the rtd means you’re using Lund/PBD/etc. IMO not the best but not the worst. You’ll get a solid proven tune but maybe not great either. With mvpi3 there are some small tuners that will sell you absolute total garbage. These guys typically peddle through the hptuners forum, but not always. On the other hand there are some highly talented tuners that use mvpi3, so choose wisely.

I will personally never use rtd because after seeing what’s in many aftermarket tunes, I will never again blindly trust anything outside of oem and maybe Roush.

 

[gssteele]

Not as far as I know. What he’s saying is that most “big name tuners” use rtd not mvpi3. Mvpi3 allows you to see exactly what the tuner did to the tune.

My view is that for non-tuners the rtd means you’re using Lund/PBD/etc. IMO not the best but not the worst. You’ll get a solid proven tune but maybe not great either. With mvpi3 there are some small tuners that will sell you absolute total garbage. These guys typically peddle through the hptuners forum, but not always. On the other hand there are some highly talented tuners that use mvpi3, so choose wisely.

I will personally never use rtd because after seeing what’s in many aftermarket tunes, I will never again blindly trust anything outside of oem and maybe Roush.

Ahh, now I understand. Thank you.

 

[Dapepper9]

Not as far as I know. What he’s saying is that most “big name tuners” use rtd not mvpi3. Mvpi3 allows you to see exactly what the tuner did to the tune.

My view is that for non-tuners the rtd means you’re using Lund/PBD/etc. IMO not the best but not the worst. You’ll get a solid proven tune but maybe not great either.

I will personally never use rtd because after seeing what’s in many aftermarket tunes, I will never again blindly trust anything outside of oem and maybe Roush.

Tell that to any Gen3 owner with a Roush blower that swapped from the Roush calibration to an aftermarket calibration...they'll tell you that you're high. Ford and Roush calibrations aren't that great, they're safe-ish and not much of an improvement. Compared to a custom tune from a reputable calibrator like Lund, PBD, etc those are safe while also offering much more in drivability and benefit.

RTD/RTD+ are popular because the tunes loaded can be locked down so the end user can't tamper with what is delivered. MPVI2/MPVI3/MPVI3+ the end user is often able to tweak the tune. Huge liability for a shop, not many that will support it. The 3 could have fixed the issue, I know it was an issue with the 1/2.

 

[K4fxd]

Compared to a custom tune from a reputable calibrator like Lund, PBD, etc those are safe while also offering much more in drivability and benefit.

Ask Beefcake about Lund.....

MPVI2/MPVI3/MPVI3+ the end user is often able to tweak the tune.

These tunes can also be locked.

Huge liability for a shop,

Not really, the Ford tuning community is filled with a bunch of .......

Well I'll just say not very helpful people for the most part. The coyote has been out for over a decade and the big tuners especially, treat it like they just cracked the code yesterday.

Rant over.

 

[gssteele]

One other easy test is to flash it with the tune you read out of it. If that works, make one simple change to it and try that. If that works, then your tuner is doing something to mess it up. Maybe he’s sending you a completely different strategy.

I just realized that because I am using the TDN app to read the vehicle, I will not have access to that tune to make changes. It gets uploaded to the TDN server for my tuner to access.

 

[Dapepper9]

Ask Beefcake about Lund.....


These tunes can also be locked.

Not really, the Ford tuning community is filled with a bunch of .......

Well I'll just say not very helpful people for the most part. The coyote has been out for over a decade and the big tuners especially, treat it like they just cracked the code yesterday.

Rant over.

Beefcake isn't innocent either....

I do agree in part that it's kinda weird sometimes how big tuners act like it's a secret formula but honestly you'll see similar in the Hemi community too and there's a HUGE discrepancy between tuners both in terms of drivability and performance and some of them have done a lot of tune R&D and for another guy to come in, read a file and essentially copy it, that's really frustrating. The truck community had some flare up about that sort of thing a few months back between 2 of the more popular truck 5.0 guys

 

[engineermike]

Tell that to any Gen3 owner with a Roush blower that swapped from the Roush calibration to an aftermarket calibration...they'll tell you that you're high. Ford and Roush calibrations aren't that great, they're safe-ish and not much of an improvement. Compared to a custom tune from a reputable calibrator like Lund, PBD, etc those are safe while also offering much more in drivability and benefit.

RTD/RTD+ are popular because the tunes loaded can be locked down so the end user can't tamper with what is delivered. MPVI2/MPVI3/MPVI3+ the end user is often able to tweak the tune. Huge liability for a shop, not many that will support it. The 3 could have fixed the issue, I know it was an issue with the 1/2.

Sounds like you are the target consumer for a big-name-tuner. Glad you found the product that fits your desires.

I personally have spent the 2+ years learning the Ford logic and picking apart every mustang calibration I could get my hands on. I will not blindly buy what anyone is selling again, unless it's Ford or maybe Roush. Many are truly horrid, and the end-user is typically oblivious. The Roush tune is the only one I've seen that is an actual calibration, not a cobbled together set of band-aids. I would love to explain all the ways in which the Roush calibration is superior, but you'd really need to understand the Ford logic for any of it to really make sense. It is true that the Roush gives up power with its shift points and cat protection strategy, but those are really the easiest parts of a tune to change. Roush got the hard part right (the actual engine calibration) and didn't go after the easy gains that potentially sacrifice reliability and require octanes greater than 91 to get the benefit. And this is coming from a Whipple guy..... I'm not the only one who thinks this; all the tuners I network with also know it to be true. I'd go as far as to say that Ford's fingerprints are all over the Roush cal. I'd bet lunch that Roush paid the Ford calibration engineering team to do the bulk of the development.

 

[GregO]

I'd go as far as to say that Ford's fingerprints are all over the Roush cal. I'd bet lunch that Roush paid the Ford calibration engineering team to do the bulk of the development.

I second this statement !

Got to wonder how big that factory calibration team is, especially during development stages.

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