Starting in first gear

[ChuckC]

Are you letting off the clutch to quickly? I can get started in 1st without my foot touching the gas.

With my 5.0 there is no way I can get started without touching the gas.

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[ChuckC]

If he's stalling in 1st gear second is going to be worse.

Practice in an empty parking lot. It's all about learning the clutches grab point. If the S550 clutch and tranny is anything like my 2012's, 80% of the total pedal travel is "empty". It might be that you're pressing the pedal all the way to the floor and letting the pedal up what seems like a long distance and then maybe popping the clutch for the last bit of travel.

It's easier find the the catch point when you start out in second. Just make sure your revs are over 1.5K.

 

[Horse]

Ok perfect thanks for the tip. If i tell him that you guys verified the legitimacy, he will be ok. So you rev-match while the clutch is all the way in?

You blip the throttle before (or right before) the clutch engages. Again, the point is to make the engine speed and the wheel speed (i.e., the output shaft speed) match at the gear your are shifting to.

How to know the correct rpm for the next gear? Practice. Learn the gear ratios of different gears, so you know what the rpm will be (more or less) at the new gear.

 

[souprmage]

I can't disagree with this more.

Absolutely nothing wrong with rev-matching then using the engine to brake.

Keep reading, I'm not referring to rev matching here, although perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I'm referring to NOT rev matching and letting the clutch out when the engine isn't in the right RPM for the gear, thus spinning the engine up using it's mass against it and slowing the car down using the engine. I thought the sentence after the one you bolded made it clear what I was talking about.

Coasting and leaving the engine in gear and having it slow the car is alright, but not what I was referring to. Although both are really examples of engine braking I suppose.

 

[souprmage]

You blip the throttle before (or right before) the clutch engages. Again, the point is to make the engine speed and the wheel speed (i.e., the output shaft speed) match at the gear your are shifting to.

How to know the correct rpm for the next gear? Practice. Learn the gear ratios of different gears, so you know what the rpm will be (more or less) at the new gear.

Also keep in mind, you need to be braking at the same time, to ensure you don't need to hit red-line in order to keep up with the new gear. ie. don't down shift to 2nd and try to rev match until you're in an appropriate speed range. Forcing the motor above red line is WAY BAD.

 

[larze123]

Hmm i just told my dad the what you guys said about rev matching and he responded by saying that if you have to rev the engine when you downshift, you are simply picking the wrong gear, or not breaking enough. Any counters i can throw at him?

 

[Teezlr]

Probably am. It usually only happens when I'm at a stop sign with other cars there. I get real nervous

When in doubt give a little throttle and roast the tires haha better than stalling

 

[Horse]

Also keep in mind, you need to be braking at the same time, to ensure you don't need to hit red-line in order to keep up with the new gear. ie. don't down shift to 2nd and try to rev match until you're in an appropriate speed range. Forcing the motor above red line is WAY BAD.

Yes, good point.

When driving a manual, we should be always conscious of what gear we are in, what gear we will need to be in down the stretch (slowing down, speed up, passing, etc.), what rpm will be required (speed vs gear in mind), etc., which is on top of other things that both auto and manual drivers should be aware of.

 

[Horse]

Hmm i just told my dad the what you guys said about rev matching and he responded by saying that if you have to rev the engine when you downshift, you are simply picking the wrong gear, or not breaking enough. Any counters i can throw at him?

Sometimes you downshift not b/c you are slowing down, but b/c you want to accelerate. In this case, it is clear the rpm for the lower gear will be higher (as the wheel speed is decreasing).

Even if you are slowing down (and want to down shift), you still need to rev the rpm up to catch the output shaft speed at the lower gear. The rate the car is slowing down is not enough compared with the change in gear ratios.

 

[larze123]

Oh i gotcha. So you want to skip going through the rpm's in one gear, so you drop down one to let you accelerate faster. Interesting concept.

 

[OppoLock]

Hmm i just told my dad the what you guys said about rev matching and he responded by saying that if you have to rev the engine when you downshift, you are simply picking the wrong gear, or not breaking enough. Any counters i can throw at him?

The whole point of "rev matching" is to match the wheel speed to the engine speed. Your dad would be right if every gear had the same ratio, but then we wouldn't be driving anything more than a 1-speed. Different gears have different ratios. Staying at the same speed and choosing a lower gear will have the engine at a higher speed once the gear's engaged. Why not smooth out the transition with a blip of the throttle as opposed to letting the two drag and mate speeds?

 

[Horse]

Hmm i just told my dad the what you guys said about rev matching and he responded by saying that if you have to rev the engine when you downshift, you are simply picking the wrong gear, or not breaking enough. Any counters i can throw at him?

Or just let your dad watch the professional drivers. They brake super hard right before entering a curve, thus decelerating very fast; yet they all choose to rev match when downshift (they will likely do heel-n-toe, which includes rev matching).

 

[souprmage]

Hmm i just told my dad the what you guys said about rev matching and he responded by saying that if you have to rev the engine when you downshift, you are simply picking the wrong gear, or not breaking enough. Any counters i can throw at him?

That's the proper non-performance approach. Nothing wrong with it.

As I said earlier, rev matching is an advanced technique. Frankly, it's best used on the track. If you're using it on the street, very likely you're doing something that would ordinarily get you a ticket if the wrong person were to be watching. I'm sure some will disagree, so take this for what it's worth (not much).

The reason it's a performance technique is that it's all about time. You can certainly wait for the car to slow enough to be in a idle speed for a given gear, but it's not optimal. It's not optimal for two reasons. For a given gear, idle rpm (800 ish) is too far outside the torque/power curve so you'd lose time accelerating once you get to the proper gear. Second, you lose time waiting. For a given corner you may not need to go that slow where some gear would be in the proper idle rpm range, so you're losing time slowing more than necessary just so you can let out the clutch for a given gear

However, arguing this point with your father is a loose-loose discussion. Listen to your father. Once you get proficient with shifting and driving, then worry about performance, but do it at the track.

 

[fionic]

Hmm i just told my dad the what you guys said about rev matching and he responded by saying that if you have to rev the engine when you downshift, you are simply picking the wrong gear, or not breaking enough. Any counters i can throw at him?

No need to argue with him.

 

[Brent302]

guys guys lol

How about let him learn smoothly getting into first before we talk about rev-matching.

Honestly bud, learn 1st then everything else will start falling into place.

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