Some New GT500 Videos, Including Track Footage

Discussion in 'Shelby GT500 Mustang' started by Patio208, May 10, 2019.

  1. AmericanV8Guy

    AmericanV8Guy Well-Known Member

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    I just had surgery to repair a ripped tendon in my right arm, so typing all of that was already a bitch. Clearly you are being an ass for the sake of being an ass. so, here are a few links:
    BMW M5 (i would never own a bimmer but they are known to have a great DCT)
    https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/m5.html

    Most DCTs BMW would use would fail after 600lbs-ft
    https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1064017

    DCT vs auto:
    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/what-happened-to-the-dual-clutch-transmission/

    Porsche PDK max torque
    https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/177715-pdk-torque-limits.html

    Aston Martin CEO saying dct is on its way out:
    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...icts-the-demise-of-dual-clutch-transmissions/

    or look at all the failures Ferrari DCT owners face. Also a reason why Lambo is moving away from DCTs (ie the Aventador uses its own auto-manual hybrid)

    Or just keep living in denial and yelling "red herring" because someone isn't stapling a picture of a failed DCT to your face . What do I care?
     
  2. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about your surgery. I happened to just have had open heart surgery and also lost the use of my right hand and while typing with my left hand is a bitch I'm not here to complain about it. No need to be a genuine ass. So let's dig in to your links...

    Link #1
    So explain the relevance in linking to a BMW M5 page.

    Link #2
    A link to a Bimmer thread regarding tuning and slippage in 2014. I'm looking to see where the trans was "fragile" but I'm not seeing it. Care to delineate?

    Link #3
    A 6SpeedOnline link to 2009 where somebody inquires as to the limits of a Porsche PDK. A few posts later and with little speculation, the thread ends. Very convincing!

    Link #4
    A C&D article that was fodder here a year ago. Aston's CEO isn't a fan of DCT's and "produced a prediction that all electronically controlled clutched gearboxes are living on borrowed time, be they single-clutch automated manuals or dual-clutch automatics." Apparently he missed the memo from Chevrolet on the upcoming Corvette, from Ford on the upcoming GT500, or Tremec, the company that is making it happen on cars that actually are producing large torque figures.

    The "failed" DCT photo stapled to your brain doesn't correlate to circa 2020 and the DCT's developed by Tremec. Your trail of failure leads nowhere in this regard. If you can point to a systemic failure in design or manufacturing I'm quite sure Tremec and Ford engineers would be interested in the case being pointed out to them as would numerous prospective GT500 buyers. Better rest that hand up first though.
     
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  3. Dub347sbf

    Dub347sbf Well-Known Member

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    #23 Dub347sbf, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    I've been reading this and don't know enough to throw an opinion out (crazy right, I won't just spew BS about stuff I don't know about) but, what is the weight difference between the 7 speed DTC and the A10? May that be a reason they chose it? And if it is heavier then cool, I just don't know and yes plan on doing research.

    Edit: a quick, maybe non accurate search shows the A10 at 235 and the DTC 7 at 187-198. Looks like at least 37 pound savings which is good. I don't know that it's worth it, but sounds good.

    Edit 2: actually the newer DTC looks like its 229. So only 6 pounds of savings there.

    http://www.f150hub.com/trans/10r80.html

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw3nOQMvMWMwwrjjq4Y6UTKX&cshid=1557979495515

    Edit 3: wasn't saying anyone above doesn't know what they are talking about, i was just saying i don't. Added links i looked at.
     
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  4. AmericanV8Guy

    AmericanV8Guy Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure the weight difference between those two, but GENERALLY (again, you will see it through google) a DCT is heavier than a "standard" auto (again, many more parts)
     
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  5. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

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    Ford's 10R80 and GM's 10L80 are indeed 230-235lbs dry. The GT500 DCT from Tremec is very close to the same weight. A 10 speed auto that can handle power in the range of Tremec's new DCT is going to be just as hefty.
     
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  6. Dub347sbf

    Dub347sbf Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, that is what google told me too, but i was just curious. Good info.
     
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  7. V00D00

    V00D00 Well-Known Member

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    DCT Rules
     
  8. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK a DCT internals are very similar to a manual transmission. There's nothing inherently inferior to the DCT. In fact, in theory it should be superior to a manual because a computer is controlling the shifts. I think many manual transmission failures can be attributed to user error or user abuse. The computer controlling a DCT will never miss a shift or accidentally select first gear when it intended to select third.
     
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  9. protraxduner

    protraxduner Well-Known Member

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    My knowledge of DCT's is very limited and at least 5 years old, and around 5 years ago.....I believe....it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.....However if i remember correctly the issues around DCT's were about handling large amounts of Torque/Power.....NOT that they couldn't but to accomadate large amounts of power they had to grow in size, enough in size that it made them too big. This is me remembering interweb crap from many years ago so i am not sure any of it is valid anymore or ever was.....I am excited about the new DCT, i just hope it can handle at least another 100-200 HP without grenading.
     
  10. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    The stock GT500 will already make enough power to spin the tires up past 100 mph. It's probably if you find a way to get the car to hook up all that power that parts will start failing.
     
  11. FastCarFanBoy

    FastCarFanBoy Well-Known Member

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    I see dry weight for the 10r80 at 230 and the Tr-9007 is 198. the 10R takes 13qts to fill anyone know the fluid capacity of the 9007?
     
  12. Dub347sbf

    Dub347sbf Well-Known Member

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    In the link above i shared, it is stated that the 9070 is 229 dry, though I am not sure which will be used. Sounds like it is pretty much even when it comes to weight.
     
  13. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

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    https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sh...ord-mustang-shelby-gt500-dct-manual-possible/

    Widman has made similar comments elsewhere. Still waiting to see GM's official 10L80/10L90 torque capacity figures...
     
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  14. V00D00

    V00D00 Well-Known Member

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    Its all about the strength of the clutches, and then the gearsets and shafts of the dct. Exactly like the manuals, the only different is that more of the shock is transferred on the shifts Vs manuals. ive broken teeth off of my E92 m3s DCT after i installed the Dodson clutches to handle more power.

    SO, history shows, all will be fine for a while, until the clutches slip, they will go before the internals, and then, with stronger clutches, it will move the failue point down the road to gears. I believe/hope the gears are already strong, knowing this dct will be in the mustang and corvette, tremec would be foolish to not account for more HP.
     
  15. Ace21

    Ace21 Well-Known Member

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    One car, the GTR, nothing "fragile" about that GR6 trans! Granted it will need upgraded clutches after adding a few 100+ lbft of torque and launching on a normal basis. Your statement is not entirely false per-say because there are some examples of very terrible production DCTs out there from the not so distant past, but the way you stated it as fact for ALL DCTs, is what makes it false. Also, the major component that would limit a DCTs tq handling ability would be the clutches, and in most cases that is a relatively easy fix.

    I'm not a huge follower of the BMW, so I can only speculate on the subject, as you are. However, I would guess that BMWs move away from DCTs is probably based on a few things like:
    1. Cost per unit, much cheaper to have autos in many cars than to have some with autos and some with DCTs.
    2. Maintenance cost, newer autos use "bandless" designs which wont generate as much heat and metal particulate over time. All that adds up to a trans that will not typically need to be serviced over the "lifetime" of the trans, where DCTs on the other hand will need servicing every couple of oil change intervals and the fluids are usually proprietary (this is changing though).
    3. Refinement, Autos and DCTs both get this right most of the time, however, it is much easier to program an adaptive tq-converter auto to be smooth at low speeds than an "engaged" DCT as there is a fine line that the DCT has to maintain between engagement jerkiness and clutch slippage, all to control heat build up in the system.

    As for the New GT500 7-speed, I can only imagine that the rated torque on that unit is because of the engineered reliability vs strain calculations that are based on materials used and sizes, and clutch pack size/amount (how many friction plates etc.). I personally foresee someone finding the clutches' limit and replacing them with more or better friction materials, at which point the trans will have no issue reaching numbers higher than the motor can reliably produce in stock form.
     
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  16. 9secondko

    9secondko Well-Known Member

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    The worst thing would be for Ford to release a high performance destroyer to an enthusiast market known for modding.

    Ford knows this.

    We aren’t getting a DCT that can just barely cope with the stock power numbers.

    I don’t know of course, but I can see a DCT capable of supporting the torque corresponding to a 1,000 hp DOHC car.

    If Bugatti had it going on so long ago (2005) on their car for $100,000 and able to support the power, then Ford can certainly have it in their 70k car 15 years later in 2020.
     
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  17. V00D00

    V00D00 Well-Known Member

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    this ^
    And im a betting man, with my money on Ford and Tremec knowing what a capable DCT in an American performance car will do for each of them
     
  18. Redzone

    Redzone Member

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    Are you referring to a Veyron? If so, add another 1.6M to the price.
     
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  19. 9secondko

    9secondko Well-Known Member

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    Are you referring to an exotic, custom, hardly any built entire car? Or just the transmission, which was crazy expensive and exotic then and seen all over now...

    We aren’t comparing the 500 to the veyron. Simply recognizing that the DCT in the 500 can easily and much much much more affordably handle more than the stock car can throw at it.

    DCT reliability in the beastly GT500 is not an issue.

    Let’s move on from that non-debate.

    If another car has DCT upgrades to cope with aftermarket power, the same is better done at the factory.

    The DCT in the 500 is a game changer in s very positive way.

    I for one am excited to see magazine drivers with an ad to grind no longer have the option of shifting horribly.

    Beyond that, I want to focus on driving over selecting a gear. If it means pulling a paddle right where my hand is already, I’m all for it.

    I like rowing my own as well, but when it comes to pure performance, we are getting the best in this car. Enjoy it.
     
  20. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt Well-Known Member

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    auto engineer friends of mine speak very favorably of this box, and also the people who have been allowed to tune it.

    I can't wait to try one out :)
     
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