Show me your Fore setup!!

[db252]

Thanks much. Looks like we've got most of the same stuff. I got the Fore rails (centri setup) and I am still in the market for injectors. Also, I'm setting my dual pumps up with the FC3/hobbs, but I know that's personal preference. I did think about a third pump, but seemed like too much overkill at this point on a system that is already overkill. Other than those things, I've got the same options, so that is encouraging if you are saying the kit is pretty complete as is. It was a little tough to know exactly what options to get before getting into it. Thanks again and I will keep you in mind for install questions.

Yes, there is a multitude of systems and setups that can be installed. Neither are really wrong, just more application specific.

Just be aware on your setup with the FC3 and the way you're going to wire it is that if your primary pump fails, your car will die because the only way the other one kicks in is based on boost/demand. In reference to mine, if either of my pumps fail, I'm still running of course unless both go out at the same time. In a pinch, you can reverse your wiring to get you back on the road again but just know this going in.

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[rts9364]

Yes, there is a multitude of systems and setups that can be installed. Neither are really wrong, just more application specific.

Just be aware on your setup with the FC3 and the way you're going to wire it is that if your primary pump fails, your car will die because the only way the other one kicks in is based on boost/demand. In reference to mine, if either of my pumps fail, I'm still running of course unless both go out at the same time. In a pinch, you can reverse your wiring to get you back on the road again but just know this going in.

Yes, you are correct and I thought about this a lot. I was thinking I'd rather have the car die and address a somewhat minor problem as opposed to not knowing anything was amiss until I had my foot on the floor and something went boom.

So, in your scenario you mentioned, say one of your pumps failed. Your car would still run normally, but is there some way to know that the other pump died so you don't lean on it with only one pump?

I've got some time before I install so I am open to other ideas/opinions.

 

[db252]

Yes, you are correct and I thought about this a lot. I was thinking I'd rather have the car die and address a somewhat minor problem as opposed to not knowing anything was amiss until I had my foot on the floor and something went boom.

So, in your scenario you mentioned, say one of your pumps failed. Your car would still run normally, but is there some way to know that the other pump died so you don't lean on it with only one pump?

I've got some time before I install so I am open to other ideas/opinions.

I totally understand where you are coming from as I had the same questions you had. In MY scenario, with my two pumps running full time, I will be wiring up two LED’s one for each pump in the near future. These will be on when the pumps are of course running and if any one of the two were to shut down, the LED to that pump would go off. A buddy of mine did that to his car so I’d give him all that credit.

You could do this as well but your second pump would only activate the LED when on demand which doesn’t really help the situation. The constant on/off is actually, I’ve been told anyways, harder on the pumps over time than constant running. In practice, that’s why this setup works better with a three pump system.

There really is no right or wrong setup up between ours be clause they are both fallible. Keep us updated on your progress.

 

[MikeyPee]

Talked to Justin at Fore, and there’s no need to run parallel feeds for a car under 1000 rwhp; he said they’ve fitted hundreds of cars at the 1200 mark with a series setup, with no issues. I don’t plan to go over 800 at the wheels, or want my engine bay full of unnecessary lines. If I decide to go twins in the future, I’ll retrofit. Until then, I’m going with a single feed line to the rails.

 

[pro 5.0]

There are many different opinions on how to wire up your pumps on a 2 or 3 pump return system. Let's use a Walbro 465 pump as an example in a 2 pump system you can run both pumps full time or you can run 1 full time then trigger the second one off a boost reference. When you run both pumps full time it not only creates a lot of heat which in turn heats up your fuel it also taxes your charging system at idle. You really have no idea if both pumps are working when you go WOT, if you hook up an led like someone else suggested to the power side of the boost referenced pump then you know when power is supplied to the pump therefore it should be working and if not it would pop a fuse. I don't know if I buy into the theory of it being bad for the pumps to be turning on and off via a pressure switch, the secondary pumps wouldn't turn on until min 5 psi and in that situation you should be going WOT anyways. I guess it would depend on the power adder if you ran a PD blower they can make 10 psi at quarter throttle where as a turbo would take much more throttle angle to achieve the same 5 psi. Fuel pressure is also affected when you turn on the secondary pumps and that may be why some tuners prefer the pumps to run full time. IMO in a 2 pump system I would run both pumps full time but on a 3 pump system I would run 1 pump full time and the other 2 on boost reference. In the end there has to be some faith put into the equation that the 2 or 3 pumps are working you could put in all the led lights you want but when you go WOT the lights could come on then during the pull 1 could go out if a pump failed and you probably wouldn't notice it.

 

[MikeyPee]

There are many different opinions on how to wire up your pumps on a 2 or 3 pump return system. Let's use a Walbro 465 pump as an example in a 2 pump system you can run both pumps full time or you can run 1 full time then trigger the second one off a boost reference. When you run both pumps full time it not only creates a lot of heat which in turn heats up your fuel it also taxes your charging system at idle. You really have no idea if both pumps are working when you go WOT, if you hook up an led like someone else suggested to the power side of the boost referenced pump then you know when power is supplied to the pump therefore it should be working and if not it would pop a fuse. I don't know if I buy into the theory of it being bad for the pumps to be turning on and off via a pressure switch, the secondary pumps wouldn't turn on until min 5 psi and in that situation you should be going WOT anyways. I guess it would depend on the power adder if you ran a PD blower they can make 10 psi at quarter throttle where as a turbo would take much more throttle angle to achieve the same 5 psi. Fuel pressure is also affected when you turn on the secondary pumps and that may be why some tuners prefer the pumps to run full time. IMO in a 2 pump system I would run both pumps full time but on a 3 pump system I would run 1 pump full time and the other 2 on boost reference. In the end there has to be some faith put into the equation that the 2 or 3 pumps are working you could put in all the led lights you want but when you go WOT the lights could come on then during the pull 1 could go out if a pump failed and you probably wouldn't notice it.

I wouldn't trust a trigger on a dual-pump system. Gonna run mine full-time

 

[rts9364]

I wouldn't trust a trigger on a dual-pump system. Gonna run mine full-time

If you’re concerned with the trigger, then a third pump wouldn’t make it any better (if that’s what you mean).

I agree with what someone said before, at some point you have to trust it regardless of how you have it set up.

 

[turbofiveoh]

There's nothing wrong with running multiple in tank pumps full time. Granted, as stated earlier, the return fuel can get hotter and there is an additional current load on the alternator. Neither of these are a major issue unless you routinely run your car extremely low on fuel.

On another project car that I've been messing with for the better part of 20 years I've gone through many iterations of multiple fuel pumps and found that no one setup was more reliable than another. I've wired my system so that I am visually alerted when the staged pumps are active and when there is a fuel pump failure. Granted, I'm only notified if there is no power to the pump or if there is power to the pump. If the pumps fails in a state that it has low flow rate I won't know. For this reason, a few times a year, I manually activate all the pumps individually with the engine off and listen to each pump. A failing pump tends to be louder than a properly working pump. If I do think one pump is louder than normal I inspect the fuel flow by disconnecting the feed line and making sure the fuel output is about even with the normal sounding pumps. Anymore, with how cheap pumps are, I would just replace it to be safe.

It is nearly impossible to know, by listening with the engine running and the car moving, that a fuel pump is on and working properly, or not working, when you have more than one pump active. Some of you may have amazing hearing but I'm not able to tell if one pump, or all three pumps, are active when the engine is running...my pumps are just too quiet.

In my experience there are advantages and disadvantages in either scenario, staged or always on...I've done both. For a street car I prefer to have both pumps running at all times in the event of a failure you are not on the side of the road having to rewire your fuel system. Pumps don't always fail in the most convenient spots. What I would encourage anybody who is installing a multiple pumps system to do is to have some kind of visual alert that notifies you of a pump input voltage failure as when pumps fail they do start to use more current than normal, get hot, and pop a fuse.

 

[Tommy V]

Easy fix for worrying about if u have one or multiple fuel pump failures.Run a fuel pressure sensor of your regulator or your rail and have a fuel pressure gauge in your car.Fuel and oil pressure are the most crucial to monitor when making a lot of hp anyway.Cheap and easy way to alert u if u have fuel delivery problems.Hell.some gauges u can set to.alert u at whatever pressure drop u set them too.

 

[turbofiveoh]

Another option is to run a fuel pressure safety switch to the ignition.

 

[oesman]

Another option is to run a fuel pressure safety switch to the ignition.

I've been wanting to do a wastegate with electronic boost controller setup for my PC. Not just because I could run a more aggressive pulley and spool earlier like others, but also because the controller I'd use would be able to see the fueling go lean and kill the boost automagically.

 

[kcc0521]

I thought about wiring a low fuel pressure with to my two step to limit rpm to 2700 if fuel pressure drops.

 

[oesman]

I thought about wiring a low fuel pressure with to my two step to limit rpm to 2700 if fuel pressure drops.

Yea that could be an interesting strategy. My worry is going lean at 6k rpm followed by bad news. That's why the wideband triggering waste-gate to dump boost seems like a nice idea. Not sure if it would be fast enough to save the engine in all scenarios of course.

 

[Dennisn]

I totally understand where you are coming from as I had the same questions you had. In MY scenario, with my two pumps running full time, I will be wiring up two LED’s one for each pump in the near future. These will be on when the pumps are of course running and if any one of the two were to shut down, the LED to that pump would go off. A buddy of mine did that to his car so I’d give him all that credit.

You could do this as well but your second pump would only activate the LED when on demand which doesn’t really help the situation. The constant on/off is actually, I’ve been told anyways, harder on the pumps over time than constant running. In practice, that’s why this setup works better with a three pump system.

There really is no right or wrong setup up between ours be clause they are both fallible. Keep us updated on your progress.

Exactly how does your led know the pump is actually working? !im assuming you'll tie it in so when the pump has power, andthat's what's lighting your led. Just cause the pump has power does not mean it is working?

 

[Crackerjack17]

If running in series is ok, why didnt the factory do it that way? The factory rails split into y and deadhead at each rail. I guess with larger rails and lines in series its likely way more flow than necessary, but I still don't like that idea. I would imagine that last cylinder in a series setup, would experience a pressure drop, but maybe not if the volume and flow is high enough.

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