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[ARDrummond25]

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[pilotgore]

All,

I have a service appointment on Wednesday but I’m curious if any of you know what I should expect to be told after they look at my car. I was on track on Saturday and I clanked a shift and instead of going in gear I went into neutral which cause an over-rev. Nothing catastrophic (I think) but also not good. That caused my computer to throw some engine codes which I used my OBDII reader to learn it was cam position retardation. It was super mild and I have had this exact series of events happen once before (I promise to be more careful shifting on track).

from there I cleared the codes and took it easy for a couple laps when I was back on about 45 minutes later, but on my third lap (first hot lap) coming around turn 3 my dash said low oil pressure and I looked at my gauge and it said zero, nothing, nada. I immediately pulled over and turned off the engine. While the engine was off I got some overheating codes.

When I got back to the paddock I saw a bunch of codes, mostly overheating, another cam shaft position retardation flag and two engine misfires at startup which didn’t surprise my because after I cleared the codes it usually needs a little time to relearn before performance is back to normal.

In hindsight I realize I did a lot of things wrong in this story, but it’s too late for that now, but I can still mentally prepare myself for what’s to come. On track theories were mostly centered around a failed oil pump. The engine has electrical power but doesn’t turn over.

Who wants to tell me what happened to my baby?

Do you still have oil?

The cam position and engine retard codes could be related to the weak link vct solenoids and wiring harness (which used to give me lots of grief especially when the car was warm.)

I’m surprised you over-revved… I thought that could only happen if you downshift to soon and the revs were forced above the software limited 8250. At any rate I’ve had that code before and the dealer didn’t seem to care.

I’ve gotten the overheat codes before after going in for inspection after going agricultural and not taking cooldown laps.

An oil pump couldn’t definitely be plausible.

Sounds like your car wanted a 2019 engine

Edit: Just remember, when the dealership asks, you weren’t on track and you have no idea what happened. I had an on track issue at the end of last season, $1300’ish worth, and I was dumb enough to tell them it happened on track. It’s supposed to be covered per the terms of the warranty, but I had to go back and forth with them several times to get it covered under warranty. Afterwards, the tech told me never to mention you were on track when it happened. They have no way of verifying where it happened or what your activity was prior to failure. The only datapoint they have is if the car throws an over-rev code… and that can easily be explained away as an accidental downshift.

Edit 2: The time my car overheated after a non-cooldown lap engine shutdown, my starter took that opportunity to shit the bed. Have you tried push starting the car by popping the clutch while rolling?

 

[ARDrummond25]

Do you still have oil?

The cam position and engine retard codes could be related to the weak link vct solenoids and wiring harness (which used to give me lots of grief especially when the car was warm.)

I’m surprised you over-revved… I thought that could only happen if you downshift to soon and the revs were forced above the software limited 8250. At any rate I’ve had that code before and the dealer didn’t seem to care.

I’ve gotten the overheat codes before after going in for inspection after going agricultural and not taking cooldown laps.

An oil pump couldn’t definitely be plausible.

Sounds like your car wanted a 2019 engine

Edit: Just remember, when the dealership asks, you weren’t on track and you have no idea what happened. I had an on track issue at the end of last season, $1300’ish worth, and I was dumb enough to tell them it happened on track. It’s supposed to be covered per the terms of the warranty, but I had to go back and forth with them several times to get it covered under warranty. Afterwards, the tech told me never to mention you were on track when it happened. They have no way of verifying where it happened or what your activity was prior to failure. The only datapoint they have is if the car throws an over-rev code… and that can easily be explained away as an accidental downshift.

Edit 2: The time my car overheated after a non-cooldown lap engine shutdown, my starter took that opportunity to shit the bed. Have you tried push starting the car by popping the clutch while rolling?

Yeah, there’s plenty of oil still left in the car. No evidence of any leak and I checked the oil in the paddock and it read as fine. OBDII reader said the oil had 45% life left too.

I checked the wiring harness and the connectors going to each cylinder and none of them were loose or wiggly.

the car isn’t under warranty anymore anyway (it’s a 2017) so I don’t much care if they know it happened on track.

 

[Tomster]

If the OPG failed, that would be a zero oil pressure situation.... also a bad oil pressure sensor would do it. You'd have to do some troubleshooting to figure out which it was.

The former would be a new engine, the latter would be a simple sensor.

 

[ARDrummond25]

If the OPG failed, that would be a zero oil pressure situation.... also a bad oil pressure sensor would do it. You'd have to do some troubleshooting to figure out which it was.

would either of those prevent the engine from turning over though?

 

[Tomster]

would either of those prevent the engine from turning over though?

No, it shouldn't. You said the car was running and you shut it off. If you really did have zero oil pressure due to an opg, the engine is most likely trashed. It would have to be torn down to determine the extent of the damage.

If its a sensor, you can troubleshoot the sensor itself.

@honeybadger would be the best resource pertaining to a rebuild and the costs. But first things first.

 

[ARDrummond25]

No, it shouldn't. You said the car was running and you shut it off. If you really did have zero oil pressure due to an opg, the engine is most likely trashed. It would have to be torn down to determine the extent of the damage.

If its a sensor, you can troubleshoot the sensor itself.

@honeybadger would be the best resource pertaining to a rebuild and the costs. But first things first.

Yes it was running when I turned it off, then it wouldn’t start back up after I got it to the paddock and made sure it still had oil.

 

[honeybadger]

Have you tried turning it over by hand? Is it seized?

 

[ARDrummond25]

Have you tried turning it over by hand? Is it seized?

i have not tried that nor do I know how. I imagine I could google it but if you care to explain the procedure please do.

 

[Tomster]

i have not tried that nor do I know how. I imagine I could google it but if you care to explain the procedure please do.

I've never done it, but I would imagine you would pull the coils and plugs and then turn the crankshaft with a long lever like a breaker bar.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

If you’ve never done it it’s probably going to be a big pain for you to do it. Basically pull the spark plugs and put a socket and ratchet on the crank bolt and and rotate it. If it’s seized it will not budge.

 

[honeybadger]

You don't even need to remove the plugs - just remove the airbox and put the socket on there and try to turn it over. If it won't budge at all (it could take a good bit of effort), then it's seized and the engine is toast.

Edit: fixed grammar

 

[ARDrummond25]

You don't even need to remove the plugs - just remove the airbox and put the socket on their and try to turn it over. If it won't budge at all (it could take a good bit of effort), then it's seized and the engine is toast.

Sounds like it would be easier to let the techs tell me on Wednesday when I bring it in.

what would be the cause of the engine seizing in this instance? The oil starvation from the pump failing or blasting metal through the engine internals or both or something else?

 

[honeybadger]

Sounds like it would be easier to let the techs tell me on Wednesday when I bring it in.

what would be the cause of the engine seizing in this instance? The oil starvation from the pump failing or blasting metal through the engine internals or both or something else?

I have two theories:

1. Overrev sent some tiny pieces of valve springs into your oil pump and wrecked it and then motor seized due to friction from lack of oil
2. Something caused excessive friction (such as spun bearing, etc.), which blocked oil passage, eventually starved and then seized (happened to a buddy of mine)

Might be neither, but if the engine won't turn over because it's seized, you'll need a new one

 

[nmp1]

Make sure everything under that hood is stock, including the oil and air filter. Don't give them any reason to deny the claim if it's under warranty. I hope there is no tune on it either.

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