Serious reservations about the 5.2 now...

[Flak]

Depends on what you wanna do. Stock for stock just get the most powerful model. Mod for mod all things equal the larger motor (probably the V8) will have more potential. Not to mention the V8 sound. Even if they have to make it a 2.0 V8 gotta have the sound.

As for the GT who's to say they will never put another motor in it in the future. Besides the homologation maybe a special addition V8 if it will fit.

You know, that's the other thought I had. I imagine there's AT BEST not much to gain from going up in cylinder count with increasing displacement on a four cycle engine, simply because you're adding more complexity, mass and friction. I do wonder if they will make ultra-low displacement V8s (like some of those exotic race car ones from decades ago) with a turbo to satisfy a niche desire for V8s even into the future where they are ostensibly simply irrelevant.

They could do it now with a miniaturized V10 or V12 or S8 for no reason other than sound and novelty, but I think the V8 might have enough 'brand loyalty' for lack of a better word it might still make money even after it's been surpassed in all useful metrics by FI and hybrid setups outside of supercars and the like.

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[9secondko]

Hypothetical - Mustang 2025 model (slightly lower weights, composites more common):

• EB performance I4 hybrid (base) - 340 HP effective, great mileage
• Twlight next-gen lower displacement high rev V8 (NA heritage model probably with fake scoops) - 400 HP, ok mileage, great sound
• EB V6 hybrid geared for performance with pure lithium battery, advanced regenerative braking (GT) - 600+ HP/600+ TQ equivalent, best in class MPG

Which would you buy?

The 1000 hp turbo v8.

 

[BGolden]

Easy to get 1000 out of a v6. I have done it in the GTR platform with no issues. I think the new GT is going to be amazing.

 

[FPCV8YO]

It seems that Ford is moving to the EcoBoost era and with the power potential of that 3.5 V6 going into the Raptor and GT, it really makes me wonder if the Voodoo is going to be a short-lived stepchild in the new Ford portfolio.

I think it goes without saying that it is very clear that the GT500 will have that 3.5 V6 and that forced induction on the 5.2 is not going to happen.

The tuning potential of that 3.5 V6 is simply mouth-watering and really makes it hard for me to care about the 5.2 other than that delicious sound it makes.

Perhaps, this is Ford's way of honoring their last N/A V8 and they chose to go balls out with the FPC and they chose this platform to put it in.

There are BMW guys who are still butt hurt over loosing the N/A V8 even though, the numbers of the twin turbo I6's surpass those of the previous N/A V8.

Ford's next hi-po Mustang could very well have a EB V6 under the hood which could outperform this car.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Yep, the new M3/M4 is a good example of how a turbo 6-cylinder can outperform n/a V8.

However, almost every review of the M3/M4 states is just sounds.............nowhere near as good as a V8.

I think the Mustang is a more emotional purchase than a BMW, even at the M-Power level and much of that is based on the Mustang's V8.

I really, really hope there's a future for V8 in the Mustang, even if that means a smaller capacity and forced induction.

 

[Cruzinaround]

A twin Boosted(SC for lower RPM, TC for upper RPM band) or twin-Scroll dual turbos would be the mods to look into for the 5.2. Not sure how much room with the current compression it will have for boosting with just a bolt on solution. More likely a complete cam swap to make that puppy more docile before ramping up the boost.

If they should follow up with lets say a Mach 1 platform with a boosted VoodDoo 5.2, then it would make a future motor swap more attainable if they actually sell this as a crate engine platform through Ford Racing.

The turbo kit installs I've read about on the Coyote's have just as many horror stories as there are successes. Even then...how long does that motor have before its just blown up bits.

 

[Tony Alonso]

A high revving Flat Plane crank ..... I have doubts that the motor lifespan will be impressive. Unless they did some serious plasma coating over the entire insides and reinforced all the internals. Only time will tell. But, the manufacturer warranty could shed some light on it... Let's see the mileage limits they tack onto that for in warranty coverage.

Have you seen videos of how Ford durability tests their engines. It's quite vigorous. Regularly racing the GT350 might be one thing. But for those who are driving the cars on the street, I would not expect it to be any different than any other high performance engine that's been produced in recent years.

 

[robb]

The v6 ecoboost is a very interesting option. They can be built to incredible power and sounds. Take a listen to the formula 1 v6 engines or even the Nissan GTR. At wide open throttle these rock!

 

[Cruzinaround]

A Race Car can be sitting in a garage for weeks between runs then do laps equivalent to a few miles for many years and never break 10k total miles. A Daily Driver can be averaging 15-20 miles or more per day and easily break 10k miles per year. Professional Racing teams will regulary break down and rebuild their engines to inspect every part between races. I'm not saying that FoMoCo doesn't go above and beyond with stress testing. But, life cycle testing is more of a real world Vs theoretical best guess. In the real world these motors could see some common failures prematurely when compared to more docile powerplants. It's not going to stop me from buying one, I have other cars to spread the driver between. But as a single car choice.... and as a daily driver? Maybe this will be that car reliably for 3 years before mechanicals start to require attention? Maybe it can be that car that keeps going well beyond 200k. Like I said, we won't know until we get there. But if its anything like many collector cars....it gets driven for maybe 2k then garaged and only taken out on the weekend to shine it up or drive it to a track day event.?

 

[Tony Alonso]

In the real world these motors could see some common failures prematurely when compared to more docile powerplants. It's not going to stop me from buying one, I have other cars to spread the driver between. But as a single car choice.... and as a daily driver? Maybe this will be that car reliably for 3 years before mechanicals start to require attention?

What failures or mechanicals do you think would require "rebuilds" or maintenance?

 

[Sabre]

Let's not get to worried about this just yet.


Here's an interesting quote from Dave Pericak, director of the new integrated Ford Performance:


The limited-production Shelby GT350R will be available in the United States and Canada later this year, and is one of more than 12 new Ford Performance vehicles coming by 2020.
“This is the pinnacle of performance Mustangs today,” said Dave Pericak, director, Ford Performance. “The Shelby GT350R Mustang lays the groundwork for a story that will play out for years to come on the track and the street.”




12 new performance vehicles coming by 2020. Sounds like there may be room for the 5.2 FPC to fit in there somewhere yet. There are even some Mustang variants left to revive....like Mach 1.


Just sayin'

 

[Cruzinaround]

What failures or mechanicals do you think would require "rebuilds" or maintenance?

Literally any internal MOVING part that can bend, Crack, shear or disintegrate under continued stress. Take a blow up schematic of a FPC and point to any internal moving part. The more there are the more possibilities exist for maintenance checks and/or rebuilds.

Its got a redline of 8200 RPMs. Not saying that's where we all sit at when driving in the real world. But even half that amount is double what a normal pushrod V8 runs at.

Still very excited about this motor. And anxious to see to what level it can be tweaked and tuned and what the aftermarket has for us once it does hit the ground.

 

[robb]

Literally any internal MOVING part that can bend, Crack, shear or disintegrate under continued stress. Take a blow up schematic of a FPC and point to any internal moving part. The more there are the more possibilities exist for maintenance checks and/or rebuilds.

Its got a redline of 8200 RPMs. Not saying that's where we all sit at when driving in the real world. But even half that amount is double what a normal pushrod V8 runs at.

Still very excited about this motor. And anxious to see to what level it can be tweaked and tuned and what the aftermarket has for us once it does hit the ground.

I find it hard to getting anywhere near redline around town. Even entering the highway redline is not really needed with this Coyote engine. I'm normally shifting into the next gear around 6000k. Can't imagine what 8200 is like!

 

[Tony Alonso]

Literally any internal MOVING part that can bend, Crack, shear or disintegrate under continued stress. Take a blow up schematic of a FPC and point to any internal moving part. The more there are the more possibilities exist for maintenance checks and/or rebuilds.

I am not an engine builder, but I honestly don't see this as a high strung, got-to-tear-it-down-regularly kind of powerplant. There have been plenty of high strssed engines from Ford over the last number of years. I don't logically conclude that things will be blowing up left and right.

Its got a redline of 8200 RPMs. Not saying that's where we all sit at when driving in the real world. But even half that amount is double what a normal pushrod V8 runs at.

The GM V8 pushrod engines are pretty revvy these days - more than 4100 RPMs. Tons of engineering have gone into those also.

Still very excited about this motor. And anxious to see to what level it can be tweaked and tuned and what the aftermarket has for us once it does hit the ground.

I think this will be a great powerplant. I personally would not feel the need to tweak it, but I do think the aftermarket (outside of Ford aftermarket itself), is going to have a new learning curve to figure out things.

 

[Cruzinaround]

I am not an engine builder, but I honestly don't see this as a high strung, got-to-tear-it-down-regularly kind of powerplant. There have been plenty of high strssed engines from Ford over the last number of years. I don't logically conclude that things will be blowing up left and right.

As a Consumer product it shouldn't be rebuilt at regular intervals. It should be built to last for more than the average ownership lifecycle of a daily driven car. Which in the past was maybe 10 to 14 years of ownership. In our times this ownership number has shifted down with the average ownership being between 4 to 7 years before flipping to another car. But, the initial power rating will degrade over time and as a high RPM powerplant that will happen exponentially faster than a traditional powerplant with a docile rpm band. So I only wonder if the current trends have lowered the bar for consumer expectations. Do we want to have this car and still driving it at 200k+ miles for the next 10 years. My 2000 Durango was driven daily up until 2011 and accumulated over 250k+ miles on it before I bought my Traverse. That had a 5.8 liter Magnum V8 and was a workhorse. By comparison I only question how durable this 5.2 liter will be?

The GM V8 pushrod engines are pretty revvy these days - more than 4100 RPMs. Tons of engineering have gone into those also.

4100 RPMs is not cruising rpms. That would fall more between 1800 and 2300 RPMs. Still not really beating on the motor. The FPC might be cruising at 3000 to 4100 RPMs, We don't really know yet. But, depending on where in the RPM band the sweet spot is the owners of these cars could be making a lot of noise cruising in this as a daily driver. Again, I don't know yet since I can't afford to drive a ferrari to get a baseline for real expectations. My Current GT cruises at 2300 RPMs, but as a stick sometimes I hold it to cruise at 3500 RPM's in 4th gear just to be closer to the sweet spot in the powerband when I either upshift or rev match and downshift. Depending on where the sweet spot is on the VooDoo...that RPM range could be higher. Thus beating on the motor. Of course depending on driving styles.

I think this will be a great powerplant. I personally would not feel the need to tweak it, but I do think the aftermarket (outside of Ford aftermarket itself), is going to have a new learning curve to figure out things.

I don't think I would tweak it either. At least not for the first couple of years. But, as more powerful Mustangs come into play and they always do... its exciting to know that there will be attainable upgrade paths to kick it up a notch when I'm ready.

As is the car should be a gem to own and drive.

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