SCCA F-Street Setup. What's Everyone Done so Far?

[SteveW]

I say go with #1. It doesn't reinvent the wheel because maintains 'best of breed' concept and here are my thoughts why:

Gen 6 Mustang GT PP and Camaro SS eclipsed Gen 4 & 5 cars, including Shelby's and other super pony option packages from those generations.

Gen 6 Mustang GT PP had a good run but perception is can't compete with M3 and drivers have moved on to other cars in Street or taken their cars to CAM.

Gen 6 super ponies can compete with M3.

I would expect new (base) ponies to come out that are faster than current super pony ones and the cycle repeats again.

#1 reason - can you imagine how cool it would sound for a grid full of FS GT350s to pound their way around an autox course beating the snot out of M3s? 'Merica!! lol

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[SteveW]

Which are in BS or AS.

I was referring to the older, harder to find, expensive to fix? one that's in FS now and causing this discussion. The Voodoo engine sounds awesome so let's make it a ringer, have grids full of them pounding around and Make FS Great Again! haha

(I'm kinda joking around but I think there is some sense to this. Marketing and perception do have an impact on #s)

 

[Schnupper]

Sorry to change the subject off of the possible class changes. I finally got to take the car out and tune the shocks to my liking. I ended up with 1 1/3 turns from full soft up front and just under 1/2 a turn from full soft in the rear. This is with stock pp bars, 275 re71r in front and 285's in rear. -2.3 camber, 0 toe up front, the rear is set -1.7 camber .14 toe (.28 overall toe in rear). I decided to soften the rear rebound and sacrifice a little turn in for a much better corner exit. The car now finally turns mid corner, and is a rocket coming out of the turns. I also have zero complaints of any under-steer on turn in now. I can't wait to actually get to an event to see if my testing was right or not.

 

[kz]

The only issue I see with proposal #1 is that 1/LEs are significantly cheaper to get (someone correct me if I am off on this but thought they can be had for ~$40k or even less) than GT350s (especially since for a long time those were sold with ADM while literally no one was buying Camaro except fan boys and autocross / track people) and I don't think PP2 comes close to 1/LE (it got buried in BS for lack of better class to put it in).
If someone doesn't want a Camaro, need to pay up for GT350. (not really a problem with classing per-se, just from perspective of a Ford person).

Proposal #2 is a nonsense IMO.

I think the right terms for E92 M3 is that it is an easier car to drive fast than Mustang which I am not convinced justifies booting it out of the class. Hats off to BMW engineers for creating this car more than 10 years ago (it was expensive though).

 

[shogun32]

I ended up with 1 1/3 turns from full soft up front and just under 1/2 a turn from full soft in the rear.

Steeda or FRPP? Which spring rates?

 

[shogun32]

1/LEs are significantly cheaper to get

absolutely. Mine was 40k OTD new off the showroom floor. (actually 37.8k because I got the Mustang Owner's incentive of $2000). It is way better than PP1/2 and also exceeds the chassis/suspension of the GT350.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I think the right terms for E92 M3 is that it is an easier car to drive fast than Mustang which I am not convinced justifies booting it out of the class. Hats off to BMW engineers for creating this car more than 10 years ago (it was expensive though).

So what justified throwing the E92 M3 into FS instead of classing it in BS in the first place? 10 years ago it would have been even more of a 'ringer' against the 5th gen ponycars.

Let it run against the upper-tier ponycars in BS if they're the ones with the most comparable performance potential..


Norm

 

[Schnupper]

Steeda or FRPP? Which spring rates?

Koni yellow and stock PP springs.

 

[SteveW]

So what justified throwing the E92 M3 into FS instead of classing it in BS in the first place? 10 years ago it would have been even more of a 'ringer' against the 5th gen ponycars.

Let it run against the upper-tier ponycars in BS if they're the ones with the most comparable performance potential..


Norm

This - https://www.scca.com/articles/2004034-class-report-f-street-comparison

Then the 2018 GT PP fixed some of the 2015 shortcomings like too short 2nd gear.

 

[Norm Peterson]

This - https://www.scca.com/articles/2004034-class-report-f-street-comparison

Then the 2018 GT PP fixed some of the 2015 shortcomings like too short 2nd gear.

That's really not a lot of data (some runs aborted or "missing"), and it may not be all that representative of effects such as the mix or order of features on actual courses. Something has allowed the M3 to reach overdog status in FS (the top 14 in FS @ last year's Nationals were all BMWs, and 8 of those ran times that could have trophied in BS). That's just last year; BMWs have taken FS the last three years running and four of the six years that FS has been F Street.

The top two FS BMWs ran even with or better than all of the GT350 and SS/1LE ponycars, which were sent off to BS for a reason. That same reason should apply to this particular BMW, with the FS line for BMW reading similar to the way the 2016-up line for the Camaro is written (I'm not familiar with BMW designations so I won't attempt to write a BMW line myself).

Camaro SS (non-1LE) (2016-20)


Norm

 

[Dana Pants]

So I wrote my letter to the SEB about FS:

Dear SEB,

In regards to proposed changes to FS, I would rank possible solutions in the following order:

1) E9X M3 to BS
We all know the background, perhaps a dead horse, I still think it would be best for the spirit of FS.

2) Do nothing
The evolution of mass-market ponies should eventually bury the E9X M3.
Affordability, production volume, and accessibility of the Camaro SS and Mustang GT Mustang are key enablers for FS participation regionally and nationally.
S650 (next generation) mustang looks to be coming around 2022 and may restore balance to the class.

3) Track Ponies to FS, All current FS ponies distributed based on ability to the nearest PAX class: (DS). E92 M3 stays in FS because its a track car.
Maybe trying to keep stock ponies together just doesn’t work that well and it will give the mustang GT and Camaro SS hope to compete somewhere meaningfully.

4) Track Ponies to FS, All current FS ponies in FS.
Ok, we all expect street cars to be buried at some point. Why not bury every Camaro SS and Mustang GT ever built until FS changes again.

6) Re-define FS as affordable older enthusiast coupes / sedans
If it goes this way, I would think the stick axle Mustangs, older Camaros, C4 Corvettes, etc. might also like somewhere to play again.
I again propose that the existing FS cars should be distributed into BS and DS based on ability, not all grouped into BS.

Looking forward to my TYFYI

 

[ahhter]

I'll get a note in this weekend to add to the pile.

 

[Dana Pants]

I took the car out last weekend to a fast and loose autocross with fresh tires and was surprised to find that front grip was such a limiting factor again despite the Strano rear sway bar on medium. Understeer was the tendency for entry, steady state, and exit as long as I didn’t intentionally upset the weight transfer or hit a bump in the course. Going to full stiff...welp... will report back in a few weeks if this helps my driving pleasure.
https://youtu.be/4TxujlMD4j0

 

[Dana Pants]

I have a feeling you're overloading the front end. What swaybar in the front?

Stock front swaybar. This is the FS thread after all . Front has all the camber allowed by ford. 275 35 R18 Re-71r tires on 18x9 wheels at 35 psi. Definitely the front end is overloaded.

 

[Dana Pants]

Stock rear bar, aftermarket front . It works. @kz

Lol. I purchased the Strano rear bar from kz because the stiff front bar was also not satisfying for me. Rear bar is definitely in the right direction for me IMO.

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