Raj Nair discusses Hybrid Mustang at 2017 NAIAS

[GT Pony]

Getting rid of the V8 would be a death sentence i know ford has way more common sense then that

They've done it before ... and it was also because of "gas mileage".

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1974-1975-1976-1977-1978-ford-mustang5.htm

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[Norm Peterson]

It feels artificial?

Any effect not under my direct control that affects the understeer budget is going to be something I notice, whether it adds some 'push' or loosens the car a little. Especially if it's tied to how much power I'm requesting from the engine in more ways than just the slip + slip angle vector summations at the drive tires.


I'm accustomed enough with running at smallish slip angles - that I don't find particularly noticeable in and of themselves but do notice when they're held to some minimal value. Think in terms of driving through a corner feeling different from driving straight ahead (livelier?) as opposed to corners and straights feeling virtually identical (Zzzquil-ish?). If that makes any sense.

As a side note, I'm wary of using any electronic means of adjusting a car's basic understeer/oversteer balance. Too much like a crutch for having missed the handling mark at the mechanical level. Remember that some years back, the 'fix' for the Lexus 460's perhaps excessive amount of trailing throttle oversteer was to tweak the stability control rather than correct the basic problem mechanically. I'd certainly apply similar thinking to a chassis that was inherently a bit too understeerish (perhaps for meeting regulations or conservative corporate standards) that was given some computerized 'help' to enable it to run with less push.


Norm

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

Hybrid Mustang now ! Whats next ? A four door Mustang ?

 

[dron_jones]

Any effect not under my direct control that affects the understeer budget is going to be something I notice, whether it adds some 'push' or loosens the car a little. Especially if it's tied to how much power I'm requesting from the engine in more ways than just the slip + slip angle vector summations at the drive tires.


I'm accustomed enough with running at smallish slip angles - that I don't find particularly noticeable in and of themselves but do notice when they're held to some minimal value. Think in terms of driving through a corner feeling different from driving straight ahead (livelier?) as opposed to corners and straights feeling virtually identical (Zzzquil-ish?). If that makes any sense.

As a side note, I'm wary of using any electronic means of adjusting a car's basic understeer/oversteer balance. Too much like a crutch for having missed the handling mark at the mechanical level. Remember that some years back, the 'fix' for the Lexus 460's perhaps excessive amount of trailing throttle oversteer was to tweak the stability control rather than correct the basic problem mechanically. I'd certainly apply similar thinking to a chassis that was inherently a bit too understeerish (perhaps for meeting regulations or conservative corporate standards) that was given some computerized 'help' to enable it to run with less push.


Norm

But to be clear you have never driven the NSX correct? Your opinion is based on speculation of what you think the driving dynamic is like? You obviously have a lot of experience on the track but I'm just trying to understand if your feedback about this specific car is based on actual seat time or not.

 

[z460]

They've done it before ... and it was also because of "gas mileage".

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1974-1975-1976-1977-1978-ford-mustang5.htm

LOl in the 70's dude get off it try it in next 4 years you can for get

 

[Norm Peterson]

But to be clear you have never driven the NSX correct?

I have not.

But I have in real life encountered a variety of situations where the understeer/oversteer balance was affected by unequal torques at the wheels. Understeer was increased in some, reduced in others. The mechanisms weren't necessarily involving torque vectoring at a differential, but the bottom-line effect on handling behavior and feel can only be more understeer or less.

I'm a DIY kind of guy, so if my car's handling doesn't quite suit me I'd really rather address it on a purely mechanical level anyway.


Norm

 

[GT Pony]

LOl in the 70's dude get off it try it in next 4 years you can for get

Yeah, so? It happened then, and it can happen again in the future. Who would have even thought a few years ago that the Mustang would become a hybrid? You think "syco tweeter man" is going to mandate that V8s don't disappear? Maybe if he abolishes the current CAFE standards, which is ultimately what's driving Ford to make a hybrid Mustang.

BTW, one rumor about the C8 Corvette is that the V8 would be going away and a high HP twin-turbo V6 mid-engine design would take it's place. That car has had a V8 for over 60 years.

 

[dron_jones]

Yeah, so? It happened then, and it can happen again in the future. Who would have even thought a few years ago that the Mustang would become a hybrid? You think "syco tweeter man" is going to mandate that V8s don't disappear? Maybe if he abolishes the current CAFE standards, which is ultimately what's driving Ford to make a hybrid Mustang.

BTW, one rumor about the C8 Corvette is that the V8 would be going away and a high HP twin-turbo V6 mid-engine design would take it's place. That car has had a V8 for over 60 years.

If the CAFE standards went away tomorrow Ford would 100% continue to make hybrid, electric and autonomous vehicles and the Mustang Hybrid would still come.

 

[Norm Peterson]

If CAFE went away, it would take the soundness of the business case for pure EV's away with it. I'd expect the hybrids to be the primary beneficiary. Niche subsets of niche models such as the hybrid Mustang would likely get put on hold.


Norm

 

[dron_jones]

If CAFE went away, it would take the soundness of the business case for pure EV's away with it. I'd expect the hybrids to be the primary beneficiary. Niche subsets of niche models such as the hybrid Mustang would likely get put on hold.


Norm

Sorry but this is simply incorrect.

 

[moubayed]

Sorry but this is simply incorrect.

I tend to agree with that statement, especially since the mustang is a global car now.

 

[dron_jones]

I tend to agree with that statement, especially since the mustang is a global car now.

People also tend to forget the investment and the timeframe for development of some of these platforms and the pull from the market place. The demand for alternative fuel type vehicles from consumers does not come from cafe standards, is comes from a consciousness of environmental impacts, and a desire to have vehicles with lower operational costs. Before someone jumps in and starts arguing that these vehicles aren't good for the environment or not its really a moot point, the general perception is that they are and that is all that matters.

If it was 1995 id buy the argument that all this stuff would start to disappear if CAFE standards went away, but these companies have reached critical mass on this technology and the investment and corporate direction, hell Ford has committed 4.5B between now and 2020. Do you really believe that they will just pull the plug on the investment they have already made?

 

[Strokerswild]

Hybrid Mustang now ! Whats next ? A four door Mustang ?

Went way beyond basic renders back in the day. :headbonk:

 

[The Wizard]

Main reason for the hybrid AWD Mustang is to be competitive with Tesla in getting up to speed, not fuel economy.
We need to stay focused on this goal.

 

[Khell86]

Have to remember that whether you agree or disagree with climate change and CAFE, fuel economy is a major buying point now for a majority of buyers.

For myself personally, my next car will be a hybrid of some kind and a mustang hybrid would be an amazing option to have, since i'm still interested in the having fun aspect as well. Any car company would be dumb to abandon FE goals right now if the next administration was to cancel current CAFE goals.

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