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Raj Nair discusses Hybrid Mustang at 2017 NAIAS

Conedodger

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The Mustang is the only performance GT car that Ford sells. I don't see any reason why they can't use the new platform to be anything from an economical ecoboost 4 to a balls to the walls twin turbo V8 AWD hybrid GTR killer.
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havasu486

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The Mustang is the only performance GT car that Ford sells. I don't see any reason why they can't use the new platform to be anything from an economical ecoboost 4 to a balls to the walls twin turbo V8 AWD hybrid GTR killer.
Not that I disagree with you at all and times are so different but I just want to remind you of the Mustang II :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Norm Peterson

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Sorry but this is simply incorrect.
Care to explain?

What I see without CAFE is less incentive for people to completely separate themselves from the ICE, hence hybrids. The attractiveness of using less gasoline over more of it is one thing. But using none of it without artificial encouragements to do so is something else entirely and overlooks at least one big convenience-oriented factor . . . what are full recharge times running?


Norm
 

Ebm

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Hybrids make sense because trying to get up to speed is what really consumes gas. Maintaining speed is the easy part. I would think the people driving a v8 would appreciate getting more than 10 mpg around the city. Especially with unstable gas prices in our lifetime.
 

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dron_jones

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Care to explain?

What I see without CAFE is less incentive for people to completely separate themselves from the ICE, hence hybrids. The attractiveness of using less gasoline over more of it is one thing. But using none of it without artificial encouragements to do so is something else entirely and overlooks at least one big convenience-oriented factor . . . what are full recharge times running?


Norm
Sure, its not everything but its some of the main reasons, i posted this on the previous page

dron_jones said:
People also tend to forget the investment and the timeframe for development of some of these platforms and the pull from the market place. The demand for alternative fuel type vehicles from consumers does not come from cafe standards, is comes from a consciousness of environmental impacts, and a desire to have vehicles with lower operational costs. Before someone jumps in and starts arguing that these vehicles aren't good for the environment or not its really a moot point, the general perception is that they are and that is all that matters.

If it was 1995 id buy the argument that all this stuff would start to disappear if CAFE standards went away, but these companies have reached critical mass on this technology and the investment and corporate direction, hell Ford has committed 4.5B between now and 2020. Do you really believe that they will just pull the plug on the investment they have already made?
What your post is also not considering is that CAFE is a regulation placed on manufacturers, not on the consumer, now sure you can argue that if the manufacturers are forced to adapt than the consumer will be forced to follow but if you actually look at whats happening in the marketplace with manufacturers you will see that the strategy to meet these standards varies across all manufacturers. Some are going hybrid, some pushing electric, some went diesel, some are going ICE and turbo, some are lightening their cars and making the ICE more efficient through a variety of technologies (DI/start stop/cylinder deactivation). The point is that when a manufacturer decides to go hybrid or electric it says less about the implications of the CAFE standards and more about the direction they see their consumer segment moving.
 

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Simple physics:

Electric motors efficiency = ~90%
Internal combustion engines efficiency = ~35%

We like it or not, we'll see more and more electrification despite CAFE (and global equivalents)
 

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Care to explain?

What I see without CAFE is less incentive for people to completely separate themselves from the ICE, hence hybrids. The attractiveness of using less gasoline over more of it is one thing. But using none of it without artificial encouragements to do so is something else entirely and overlooks at least one big convenience-oriented factor . . . what are full recharge times running?


Norm
Samsung claims 80% recharge in 20 minutes for it's lithion ion.
What could possibly go wrong..........

samsungburns.jpg
 

EJS2016

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IMHO...I suspect the hybrid Mustang will ride on one of several generic mobility platforms that will be shared with other/future hybrid models.
It will be a Mustang in exterior and interior design only and be differentiated from other corporate nameplates by offering specific performance hybrid power train/drive-line/suspension/exhaust/wheels, etc. upgrades along with specific trim and cosmetic packages.
 

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^^^ This would be a great way to ensure that nobody buys one. :headbonk:
 

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dron_jones

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IMHO...I suspect the hybrid Mustang will ride on one of several generic mobility platforms that will be shared with other/future hybrid models.
It will be a Mustang in exterior and interior design only and be differentiated from other corporate nameplates by offering specific performance hybrid power train/drive-line/suspension/exhaust/wheels, etc. upgrades along with specific trim and cosmetic packages.
While it makes sense for there to be some components shared for cost purposes, the system will be designed for a performance based mustang, not a fusion hybrid and propped up with some nicer wheels/suspension...

Remember the Focus RS AWD system? Stand alone design, not a carryover from an escape AWD. Same idea.
 

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What your post is also not considering is that CAFE is a regulation placed on manufacturers, not on the consumer
I realize what CAFE affects most directly. But ultimately, it is the consumer who pays for all of the development plus any penalties for failure to meet. The general public is hardly unaware of CAFE or what it attempts to accomplish.


Some are going hybrid, some pushing electric, some went diesel, some are going ICE and turbo, some are lightening their cars and making the ICE more efficient through a variety of technologies (DI/start stop/cylinder deactivation). The point is that when a manufacturer decides to go hybrid or electric it says less about the implications of the CAFE standards and more about the direction they see their consumer segment moving.
Interesting that you bring this point up. It contains an unspoken threat of gradual abandonment of you as a potential customer if you don't choose to change any applicable preferences the same way.


Norm
 

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I realize what CAFE affects most directly. But ultimately, it is the consumer who pays for all of the development plus any penalties for failure to meet. The general public is hardly unaware of CAFE or what it attempts to accomplish.
Sorry but this is also an incorrect assumption. The studies actually show that most do not even know the term and those that do only know that its environment related but none of the details. In general most understand that Government is encouraging car companies to make more efficient vehicles, but don't understand much beyond that. Like any topic, when you are an enthusiast or passionate about it, its hard to imagine that the average person isn't aware of some of the most basic concepts. But I think it was even you who said that for most a car is just an appliance you keep outside. That is a true statement



Interesting that you bring this point up. It contains an unspoken threat of gradual abandonment of you as a potential customer if you don't choose to change any applicable preferences the same way.

Norm
You lost me here, not sure i understand the point you are making.
 

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The general public can't get sport utilities fast enough, which size for size
get worse MPG's than the sedans they replaced. So no, most don't have MPG at the top of their list.
 

dron_jones

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The general public can't get sport utilities fast enough, which size for size
get worse MPG's than the sedans they replaced. So no, most don't have MPG at the top of their list.
The top three selling sport utilities in the US are Rav-4, CR-V and Nissan Rogue, the smallest (except for HR-V) most fuel efficient SUV's in each of their respective lineups.

JD power says in terms of vehicle criteria for decision to purchase is the following:
1. Reliability
2. Comfort
3. Styling
4. Mileage

because it's relevant to the arguments in this thread vehicle performance comes in at number 7.

Again I am enthusiast so I'm not arguing for taking the fun away but we all need to be honest about what is happening
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