POLL: Guess MY18 Power Level!

[Marino]

If the Genesis gained 43 more horsepower and 27 more torque out of the 3.8, the 5.0 will gain no less. Thinking about it again, the new Coyote could gain 50 horsepower just from the compression ratio increase paired with dual injection. That puts it at 485 horsepower. If you suppose that there is another gain from the bore increase, better flowing heads, and better flowing manifold, the new Coyote could be very close to 500 horsepower. This wouldn't affect the GT350 as it too will probably switch to dual injection. I'd bet Ford underrates it to 485-490 horsepower. Anything less than 470 horsepower isn't realistic because of the switch to dual injection and a 12:1 compression ratio. I want to hear from people as to how the a 5 liter engine would gain less than 40 horsepower from a switch to dual injection.

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[Cardude99]

If the Genesis gained 43 more horsepower and 27 more torque out of the 3.8, the 5.0 will gain no less. Thinking about it again, the new Coyote could gain 50 horsepower just from the compression ratio increase paired with dual injection. That puts it at 485 horsepower. If you suppose that there is another gain from the bore increase, better flowing heads, and better flowing manifold, the new Coyote could be very close to 500 horsepower. This wouldn't affect the GT350 as it too will probably switch to dual injection. I'd bet Ford underrates it to 485-490 horsepower. Anything less than 470 horsepower isn't realistic because of the switch to dual injection and a 12:1 compression ratio. I want to hear from people as to how the a 5 liter engine would gain less than 40 horsepower from a switch to dual injection.

I agree I am really thinking with all the updates to the engine this thing needs to be in the high 400's. I have a hard time believing that it will be only a 20 hp bump to 455

 

[1320']

I think a lot of the people saying (hoping) 455 HP are current s550 owners with a gen 1 coyote (let's face it not enough was changed to call it gen 2) and these people don't want the '18 S550 to be that bad ass or else their car is now interior.

Ford considers the current 5.0 (in the 2015+ S550 and F150) as being a second Generation Coyote.

Regardless of what you think, it is a Gen 2 Coyote going to Gen 3.

 

[Akwarreng]

The camaro is underrated at 455 as well, dynos at 431.

I'm hoping for 475 but with the easter eggs shown, 4th gear 55mph and 7th gear 55mph, I'm going to say 455 underrated with super flat curve that goes for ever on the GT and 755 for the hellcat killer, again with a flat curve that starts low rpm's and stays flat to 8250rpm. My prediction of the 755hp car is one that puts down a lot of torque from 3000 to 8250 with more area under the curve than has ever been seen on a sub 100k street car.

One dyno queen doesn't make a car. Most new camero's are putting down around 400 wheel hp. The 435 car was a unicorn.

 

[1320']

The camaro is underrated at 455 as well, dynos at 431.

I'm going to say it really nice and clearly for the folks in the back.

UNDERRATING CANNOT HAPPEN IN MODERN SAE CERTIFIED ENGINES.

They cannot say the engine makes 455 HP and it really makes 475 HP. The engines MUST make within 2% of the rated power. That means it could dyno as low as 449 HP or as high as 460ish.

 

[Marino]

I'm going to say it really nice and clearly for the folks in the back.

UNDERRATING CANNOT HAPPEN IN MODERN SAE CERTIFIED ENGINES.

They cannot say the engine makes 455 HP and it really makes 475 HP. The engines MUST make within 2% of the rated power. That means it could dyno as low as 449 HP or as high as 460ish.

I agree that the Camaro isn't that underrated but the wording in the SAE certificate only requires a minimum amount of power not a maximum. In other words, it is still possible for manufacturers to underrate their engines. They just can't overrate them. BMW and Mercedes still commonly underrate their engines.

 

[Cardude99]

I'm going to say it really nice and clearly for the folks in the back.

UNDERRATING CANNOT HAPPEN IN MODERN SAE CERTIFIED ENGINES.

They cannot say the engine makes 455 HP and it really makes 475 HP. The engines MUST make within 2% of the rated power. That means it could dyno as low as 449 HP or as high as 460ish.

2013 and 14 gt500, several dyno'd north of 600hp indicating the gt500 was either underrated or had a very efficient drivetrane

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

If the Genesis gained 43 more horsepower and 27 more torque out of the 3.8, the 5.0 will gain no less. Thinking about it again, the new Coyote could gain 50 horsepower just from the compression ratio increase paired with dual injection. That puts it at 485 horsepower. If you suppose that there is another gain from the bore increase, better flowing heads, and better flowing manifold, the new Coyote could be very close to 500 horsepower. This wouldn't affect the GT350 as it too will probably switch to dual injection. I'd bet Ford underrates it to 485-490 horsepower. Anything less than 470 horsepower isn't realistic because of the switch to dual injection and a 12:1 compression ratio. I want to hear from people as to how the a 5 liter engine would gain less than 40 horsepower from a switch to dual injection.

Exactly. Ford could massage a 20hp bump for far less money utilizing the current fuel system. It would be asinine to invest the resources required for dual injection unless the equipment was needed to produce the power they are aiming for.

 

[Seceda91]

Ain't no way in hell the Camaro is dyno'ing at 430-ish.. I know Hennessy dyno'd it high but you are a fool to trust in him.

With that said, most M6 Camaro dyno's 400-410 on a dyno jet while the A8 is roughly 390-400. On a Mustang dyno, it will be lower of course. But I would give them credit as most of their average to the wheels is at the 405 mark.

If the 5.0 can get 475 that would be awesome. But I voted 455 since most refreshes is a moderate jump like from 2011 to 2015. Top end is fine, it's torque that I really want a bump in.

 

[Marino]

Ain't no way in hell the Camaro is dyno'ing at 430-ish.. I know Hennessy dyno'd it high but you are a fool to trust in him.

With that said, most M6 Camaro dyno's 400-410 on a dyno jet while the A8 is roughly 390-400. On a Mustang dyno, it will be lower of course. But I would give them credit as most of their average to the wheels is at the 405 mark.

If the 5.0 can get 475 that would be awesome. But I voted 455 since most refreshes is a moderate jump like from 2011 to 2015. Top end is fine, it's torque that I really want a bump in.

So you're trying to say that there will only be a 20 horsepower jump with dual injection, a 12:1 compression ratio (DI and 12:1 are good for more than 40hp on other cars), larger bore, better flowing heads/intake manifold? I'm trying to understand your reasoning since we already know the modifications to the engine. Just because it's a refresh doesn't mean they won't exceed 20 horsepower.

 

[9secondko]

it's been a tough pill to swallow watching the Mustang sacrifice its performance lead over the Camaro this gen in levels lower than GT350 trim.

But... I think the three year wait was worth it to get the injection tech down. Ford has been doing amazing things with engine tech the last 7 years - in some cases, they are making some of the best engines in the world. So it makes sense that they want to nail the DI/PI down bulletproof and show everyone how it's done.

The Coyote is an amazing design and this is what it has been missing. It will show the design superiority over the LT1 (which itself has DI to thank in a big way for its stock prowess) despite far less displacement.

Zero reason why 475-485 HP doesn't happen.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

I agree that the Camaro isn't that underrated but the wording in the SAE certificate only requires a minimum amount of power not a maximum. In other words, it is still possible for manufacturers to underrate their engines. They just can't overrate them. BMW and Mercedes still commonly underrate their engines.

Absolutely correct! I owned a Dodge SRT-4 that was rated 225HP but dyno'd 227@ the wheels bone stock!

 

[Vinny_GT]

As I've seen smartly stated a few times in this forum, they are not going to give you the max potential of these upgrades at first, as if the Coyote carries over to the S650 they will have to bump it again (consider the 2011 Coyote power to where we are today, Ford could have given us the S550 coyote engine in an S197 GT if they wanted too... see Boss 302). Would bet anything the power rating falls somewhere in the 455-465 range

 

[5pointOh]

As I've seen smartly stated a few times in this forum, they are not going to give you the max potential of these upgrades at first, as if the Coyote carries over to the S650 they will have to bump it again (consider the 2011 Coyote power to where we are today, Ford could have given us the S550 coyote engine in an S197 GT if they wanted too... see Boss 302). Would bet anything the power rating falls somewhere in the 455-465 range

Doubtful the GT350 makes it to 2020, see GT getting magnetic ride control and quad active exhuast for 2018. Likely the GT350 goes away after this year and we get the GT500 which should be close or on par with the Hellcat which would leave a huge power gap between it and the current 435hp. I'm willing to bet that the S650 Hybrid will be the top dog performance wise even if the Coyote makes over 500 hp. If Ford can reliably make close to 500 HP with the new Coyote they will do so because that gives them a big advantage over Dodge and Chevy at a lower price point.

 

[Zelek]

I'm going to say it really nice and clearly for the folks in the back.

UNDERRATING CANNOT HAPPEN IN MODERN SAE CERTIFIED ENGINES.

They cannot say the engine makes 455 HP and it really makes 475 HP. The engines MUST make within 2% of the rated power. That means it could dyno as low as 449 HP or as high as 460ish.

That's funny because Chevy did that in 2002. I promise the LS1 did not have 320 hp.... lol.

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