Nitrogen in tires

[Zitrosounds]

I love nitrogen and the earth is flat ; )

My button is bigger than yours lololol

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[S550VIN54]

I love nitrogen and the earth is flat ; )

My button is bigger than yours lololol

Nice one!

Nice write up as Nascar uses it.

https://www.nascar.com/en_us/monste...ology-hub/nascar-mobil1-technology-tires.html

 

[H6G]

Nice one!

Nice write up as Nascar uses it.

https://www.nascar.com/en_us/monste...ology-hub/nascar-mobil1-technology-tires.html

F1 uses it as well.....

 

[Tomster]

F1 uses it as well.....

Ok, who's the hottie sitting on the JDAM?

I actually signed a JDAM while inside a bombay of a B1 just before a Tora Bora mission.

Talk about your good times.......


Edited to add, that might not be a JDAM. Please fill in the blanks

And another edit.... how did you get her shirt off?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Nice one!

Nice write up as Nascar uses it.

https://www.nascar.com/en_us/monste...ology-hub/nascar-mobil1-technology-tires.html

That reference may be well-intended, but it's misleading.

It allows the tire pressure (50 pounds per square inch) to remain constant throughout the race regardless of the temperature, which can reach 200 degrees Fahrenheit.

NASCAR shouldn't be suggesting that the inflation pressure in a nitrogen-filled tire won't vary at all along with the tire temperature. A constant volume of N2 will increase pressure with increasing temperature just like any other dry gas.

Then again, NASCAR may have some basis for believing that the people who read what they put up aren't likely to apply principles first taught in high school science classes to see if it really makes sense (lots of people fall into this category and they aren't all southern "country boys" either). So maybe it doesn't much matter to them what gets written if the vast majority of the people who read it will never question it.


Norm

 

[jasonstang]

My newest car is 1.5 months old and came with Nitrogen filled tires at delivery (which I did not pay for). With the tempatures dropping this week in Texas to just the mid teens my car has already alerted me to fill due to a low tire pressure change.

Gas still expands and contracts with temperature. Even nitrogen so the whole nitrogen does not expand and contract with temperature is not true.
Now in some cases if the air inside the tire has too much moisture, the gas will expand more when heated up. Especially with compressed air if without a dryer installed.

 

[Hack]

This topic is very interesting to me because all the sales claims are true, but when you do the math the difference between N2 and air is way too small to notice. Yet you have lots of people who swear up and down that they have noticed a significant difference. Yes a race team will spend money for any theoretical advantage, even if it's only 1%. So I do understand why a race team would use N2. However, even for a race team the difference between N2 and air is too small compared to other variables to have any real impact.

I guess that's why scientific studies use test subjects given sugar pills to block the effects of positive thinking.

 

[Norm Peterson]

This topic is very interesting to me because all the sales claims are true

Any claim that the inflation pressure in a N2-filled tire won't vary with temperature is absolutely untrue. Any suggestion that that's even possible is beyond misleading.

I am aware of other claims for N2 fills that would be true in theory, but which are very unlikely to show up within the usable lifetime of a tire. Not worth worrying about.


On scientific testing, that's also why they should be "double blind" where the person actually administering the test doesn't know what he's giving out either. That is intended to avoid contaminating the test with inadvertent clues passed on to the test subject via tone of voice, body language, etc.


Norm

 

[Tomster]

Any claim that the inflation pressure in a N2-filled tire won't vary with temperature is absolutely untrue. Any suggestion that that's even possible is beyond misleading.

Just curious, was that in one of the videos or links somewhere? I reread all the posts and cant find where someone claimed that.

FWIW, I do agree with you that the difference is water in the non dried gas.

 

[snaproll]

I think girls in bras on bombs is a way more appealing subject :cheers: but somehow I went down the rabbit hole of looking this N2 thing up once again last night.

The Nascar quote is crazy on its face since they are saying gas laws don’t apply. Just dumb and shows a lack of respect for their audience imho.

You’d think some F1 geek would have it nailed down as a graduate level experiment but I guess the engineers already know the answer.

Biased sources on both sides showing how to use science to sell what you sell:

https://powertank.com/nitrogen-truths-myths

http://www.nitrofill.com/documents/IR_NitrogenFilling_FinalReport101807.pdf

Anyway, after another hour of reading, the following conclusions seemed most credible:

1) N2 inflated tire loses pressure maybe around 30% slower because oxygen escapes tires faster.
2) Lack of oxygen reduces corrosion on everything and doesn’t support fires (why high performance planes spec it - N2 won’t feed the brake fire in the wheel well and burn the wing off, etc)
3) the properties of dry air and N2 in terms of pressure issues are basically nil
4) the properties of air with a bunch of H2O in it and N2 in terms of pressure issues may lead to a potential 1 psi differential at race car tire pressures/temp changes. Maybe.

That’s all I got.

 

[ctandc72]

FWIW, a friend who works as a service manager at a large dealership chain (Different makes) told me they started using Nitrogen fill on new car tires at no cost to the customer. He said it greatly reduced the rate of people bringing their new car in when Winter hit and the TPMS lights told them the tires were low.

 

[tom_sprecher]

At the track I used it for filling tires and running the impact wrench for the lug nuts. Cheaper and more compact that a compressor.

Nitrogen is cheaper than air??? Please explain..

A nitrogen bottle refill was like $20 and I still have the some left after racing for 7 years. I do not know where to buy a air compressor for $20.

 

[Zitrosounds]

FWIW, a friend who works as a service manager at a large dealership chain (Different makes) told me they started using Nitrogen fill on new car tires at no cost to the customer. He said it greatly reduced the rate of people bringing their new car in when Winter hit and the TPMS lights told them the tires were low.

"He said it greatly reduced the rate of people bringing their new car in when Winter hit and the TPMS lights told them the tires were low" SMH

WOW!

 

[Zitrosounds]

A nitrogen bottle refill was like $20 and I still have the some left after racing for 7 years. I do not know where to buy a air compressor for $20.

Dude a pancake compressor is 40 bucks at harbor freight, very portable and air is free. A regulator alone is about 40 bucks not to include the cost of the cylinder. How large is the cylinder that it has lasted 7 years? Large tanks are expensive not to mention the sheer size and weight of them. Not very portable.

 

[Hack]

Any claim that the inflation pressure in a N2-filled tire won't vary with temperature is absolutely untrue. Any suggestion that that's even possible is beyond misleading.

Norm

I agree 100% with this statement. However, I haven't seen the claim you mentioned. What I do see is the claim that inflation pressure will vary by less with N2 only. THIS claim is true. However, what they don't say is that the difference in pressure change between N2 and air is so small that it will make no appreciable difference in performance of the car.

I agree that every single sales claim I've read about N2 vs. air is misleading.

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