New OASIS message for Engine Rattle

[EFI]

What makes you think the noise should not be there?

When you pay upwards of 50-60k for a car you expect it to work smoothly and properly no?

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[Zitrosounds]

When you pay upwards of 50-60k for a car you expect it to work smoothly and properly no?

My car works perfectly and properly.

 

[EFI]

My car works perfectly and properly.

That's great and how it should be. But it seems Ford is ok telling the other people that dropped this kinda money on their car to just deal with it when their expensive fancy engine rattles. :headbonk:

 

[Trackaholic]

When you pay upwards of 50-60k for a car you expect it to work smoothly and properly no?

That's an interesting question, as it depends on what you are expecting.

Ford did a bunch of work to minimize friction, which increases power but also the likelihood of noise. They also used a flat-plane crank, which is not as well balanced as a cross-plane design but can allow quicker revving and more efficient exhaust flow. Then they changed the typical FPC U-D-D-U crank arrangement to an alternating U-D-U-D design, which makes vibration even worse but which gains a hair better intake efficiency (and possibly a more "American" exhaust note).

So, they purposefully added noise and vibration in order to gain a little more power and character.

I think that is why they issued a statement like this. Most people expect their engines to be very smooth and quiet, but with the Voodoo it can be vibrating and noisy yet still be functioning properly.

-T

 

[Shift]

That's an interesting question, as it depends on what you are expecting.

Ford did a bunch of work to minimize friction, which increases power but also the likelihood of noise. They also used a flat-plane crank, which is not as well balanced as a cross-plane design but can allow quicker revving and more efficient exhaust flow. Then they changed the typical FPC U-D-D-U crank arrangement to an alternating U-D-U-D design, which makes vibration even worse but which gains a hair better intake efficiency (and possibly a more "American" exhaust note).

So, they purposefully added noise and vibration in order to gain a little more power and character.

I think that is why they issued a statement like this. Most people expect their engines to be very smooth and quiet, but with the Voodoo it can be vibrating and noisy yet still be functioning properly.

-T

Considering how awesome the Voodoo is, I wonder how much better it would have been if Ford wasn't forced to compromise due to the lack of space for a dual intake and proper header design, and the consequent changes and weight added to the crank to compensate.

 

[Hack]

That's great and how it should be. But it seems Ford is ok telling the other people that dropped this kinda money on their car to just deal with it when their expensive fancy engine rattles. :headbonk:

OK, I'll bite on your trolling lure too.

It's supposed to be a hot rod, not a luxury barge. I think it's great.

 

[EFI]

Ford did a bunch of work to minimize friction, which increases power but also the likelihood of noise. They also used a flat-plane crank, which is not as well balanced as a cross-plane design but can allow quicker revving and more efficient exhaust flow. Then they changed the typical FPC U-D-D-U crank arrangement to an alternating U-D-U-D design, which makes vibration even worse but which gains a hair better intake efficiency (and possibly a more "American" exhaust note).

So, they purposefully added noise and vibration in order to gain a little more power and character.

I think that is why they issued a statement like this. Most people expect their engines to be very smooth and quiet, but with the Voodoo it can be vibrating and noisy yet still be functioning properly.

So you're saying that it's an inherent *issue* from the design of the engine and every single GT350 experiences this? As apposed to a few isolated cases while the majority are smooth and quiet?

It's supposed to be a hot rod, not a luxury barge. I think it's great.

Lawl, so now this "rattle" is actually a design feature and it was intended to be there by Ford engineers all along? Is that what we do when we have issues now, just call them part of the design and praise them? If it was part of the allure of this hotrod all along how come Ford never actively marketed it? They all talked about the aggressive exhaust, suspension, wheels, aero features...but somehow they forgot to tell us about the raw engine rattles that they designed for this car.

The Boss 302 was a "hotrod" as much as this car...did it rattle? The new Viper is as much of a hotrod as this car...does it rattle? The new Z06 is as much of a hotrod as this car...does it rattle? The 11+ GT500 is the same type of car...does it rattle?

Yeah it's supposed to be a "raw" feeling sports car, but I don't think an engine rattle is part of the design of such rawness.

 

[Zitrosounds]

That's great and how it should be. But it seems Ford is ok telling the other people that dropped this kinda money on their car to just deal with it when their expensive fancy engine rattles. :headbonk:

I think you have this all wrong! The problem here are the owners and the complaints made by said owners. This engine is not what buyers expected. It is not the norm, it is harsh, loud and clanky. 5.2L FP crank engine, largest displacement engine of its type, what was expected? all other FP crank motors are of much less displacement, easier to deal with NVH and a variety of other things. I am a 110% gear head have owned a many variety of vehicles from different manufacturers. I knew exactly what i was getting into when I ordered my car. It is raw, visceral if you will. This population of owners and there complaints is why ford is releasing the message. Its to appease the worried, concerned and uniformed buyer of the GT350.

 

[EFI]

I think you have this all wrong! The problem here are the owners and the complaints made by said owners. This engine is not what buyers expected. It is not the norm, it is harsh, loud and clanky.

I'll admit, I have only seen and heard a few examples of the Voodoo engine in person and those few did not have any type of rattle in the engine.

It seems like a majority of the engines are pretty smooth while only a few experience this "harsh, loud and clanky" feel. To me that sounds like a defect moreso than an inherent design issue.

If every single one of the Voodoo 5.2s has this I would then agree with you guys that it's part of the engine feel and some people who expected a smooth engine are complaining. So if that's the case then I apologize for sounding like a troll, but I'm still questioning whether this is the norm for ALL engines.

 

[stanglife]

Well you're about 6 years late to this conversation. Most, if not all Coyotes and Boss motors do this. The Voodoo seems a little louder but it goes away completely when warm. Also - you might say that it isn't reported as much by Coyote/Boss owners. Well like Voodoo owners, some people can hear or tune in to certain sounds and some will never hear it. It's always "there"z

 

[MAV]

Honestly, I would think there was something wrong with an 8200 RPM motor that *didn't* have some extra noise and rattles. Ever heard the cam noise out of a solid lifter motor? The high-revving engines of the late 60s had to use that kind of valve train just to turn 7000+, and they sounded like hell. No one complained about piston slap because they couldn't hear it over the sound of the lifters, pushrods, rocker arms, and valves slapping each other due to the clearances required. And yes, these were factory production engines.

While some might question piston slap (and valve train noise - I hear both in mine) as "acceptable" engine noises from a $60k car, someone else might just as well complain about supercharger whine from a GT500, Z06, and the like. What sounds good to you might worry someone else and vice versa.

My point is, yes different engine "noises" are simply part of having a car that will do things no other car can do.

 

[Hack]

Yeah it's supposed to be a "raw" feeling sports car, but I don't think an engine rattle is part of the design of such rawness.

Not sure why you are crying so much about it. Just enjoy your Coyote and don't worry. The Coyote is a really great motor as well. Almost as good as the Voodoo.

To be 100% clear and treat your post completely seriously and not as trolling - I have started and run my GT350 for many hours in below zero weather and I don't notice any noises that sound like piston slap to me. My Voodoo is very quiet at start up and when it's cold. Maybe some are not. I don't know. I think the GT350 is another great Ford product. It's been quite a while since I've owned a car for 6 months and am not bored by it. I love this car and I look forward every day to driving it. I'm really excited that the weather forecast here shows a string of 60 and 70 degree days ahead of us. The tires grip a lot better when it's not in the 30s!

 

[cosmo]

Spray-boring + smaller piston skirts for high RPM usage + forged components = piston slap

My boss does it, albeit I can only hear it next to a wall at idle while the engine is idling. New Coyote does this as well, albeit not as loudly. I'm sure the Voodoo has this effect amplified. It's a flat plane crank. There's going to be NVH issues.

 

[Hack]

Spray-boring + smaller piston skirts for high RPM usage + forged components = piston slap

I would think that the thermal expansion of a spray bore in an aluminum block would be closer to that of an aluminum piston than the thermal expansion of a thick-walled iron sleeve in said block. That would allow a tighter than typical fit.

 

[cosmo]

I would think that the thermal expansion of a spray bore in an aluminum block would be closer to that of an aluminum piston than the thermal expansion of a thick-walled iron sleeve in said block. That would allow a tighter than typical fit.

It was tossed out at one of the local meets I've had by someone who I know has some good knowledge about the voodoo. I hadn't given it too much thought yet.

I don't know the factory setup they have on the voodoo, and what the bore sizing vs piston size stackup is. Have you seen it anywhere? The Boss had a tight tolerance, 0.0009-0.0023 I believe, and that still had slap.

Depending on the steel used in the bore spray, it may have more expansion than the iron in the Boss requiring a looser tolerance. I'm not sure. I need more info haha.

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