MT-82 Question 2019+

bschoon55

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Hey Guys,

I have a question regarding the MT-82 in 2019+ vehicles. Obviously in 2019, all the MT-82s have active rev-matching.

I am wondering with this feature, if high RPM lockout going into 2nd gear and random grinding into 3rd gear is less prevalent since the computer is helping the car shift?

I have a 2018 without this feature and if I drive the car like a Grandma and take it easy... it shifts like a dream. If I drive it hard it quite frequently locks me out of a high RPM shift into 2nd and I have heard it grind into 3rd before. Just wondering with the extra technology, if this happens less in the 2019+?

Thank you and all feedback is welcome!





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Elp_jc

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That's a good question. The rev-match feature also works when upshifting... but you have to allow the revs to drop to the next gear level. I've been watching it on my car, and it happens pretty quickly, actually. But probably not quick enough if you make a super quick shift. So yes, it should definitely help... BUT you need to wait that fraction of a second to make the shift when the engine rpm is right there, which means waiting a little. If you make the shift super quick, you'd be shifting at a higher engine rpm than the next gear needs, defeating that approach. Finally, I think the lockout issue is clutch related, not the tranny. Some say switching to braided s/s lines eliminates the issue, since the rubber lines don't swell, which allows the slave cylinder to fully disengage the clutch, vs partially. Makes sense to me, but who knows. Bottom line is if you only shift as quickly as the engine drops the rpm for the next shift, you should be perfectly fine. And that'd be a pretty quick shift, for what I've noticed on my car. More than that it'd be abuse IMO, but some folks like to manhandle the tranny. And that's okay with me, but expect having to make changes to use it outside of what it was designed to handle :).
 

Vlad Soare

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To me the rev match seems to do its magic after I shift. Let's say I'm in third and want to shift to second. I press the clutch, take the shifter out of third, stick it into second, and it's only then that I see the revs rise.
So unless I'm missing something I don't see how it can help with grinding or with being locked out of a gear.
 

16COEBM

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The rev matching is only for downshifting. It revs the engine to the RPM the engine will be turning at the speed and gear selected. It is meant to be used on a racetrack or autocross. It's purpose is to match the speed and RPM for a smooth gear change while braking.

What ELP is noticing is rev hang, which keeps the RPMs up anticipating an upshift. It is also there to make the gear transition smoother. It is an attempt to keep the car from bucking and surging just after a shift.

If you are experiencing lockouts you are trying to shift the car too fast. And yes, the root cause is the factory clutch. It does not seem to want to unseat itself from the flywheel past about 7k rpm. You can band-aid the issue with a shifter, fluid change, clutch line, brackets, Ect.
 

geep81

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I don't think what you're asking is how it works. The computer isn't helping the car shift, it basically just has a sensor for when you start going into a specific gear, and the computer does the calibration on what speed to rev the engine to. It's not assisting the shift any other way.

So no, I don't think this would help at all with grinding or lockout.
 

Elp_jc

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The rev matching is only for downshifting.
No, it's not. The tranny doesn't know what the hell you're doing. It just matches the rpm of the gear you select, period. If it's lower, it blips the throttle to the correct rpm for the shift. If it's higher, it just doesn't let the engine drop below the correct rpm for the higher gear. Try it at different rpm and gears, and you'd clearly see it's not a random rev-hang, but rpm always stay where the upshift rpm is, wherever it is. It's a brilliant system. And yes, both involve 'rev hang', to give you enough time to complete the shift smoothly.
 

m3incorp

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Interesting topic.
 
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bschoon55

bschoon55

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Thank you guys for all the info. I learned a lot and I’m really surprised to hear it wouldn’t really help the issues I was talking about. I know it’s the same trans, but I figured the rev-marching would do more than it does.
 

CorvZ061

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to add to this, my 2020 has locked me out of second a could times when shifting at 7300 rpm, but drops right into 2nd if I short shift at 6500. i haven't experienced an issue going into 3rd, that i didn't cause by not having a good foot on the clutch. I hit a bump as i was shifting and my foot side stepped off the clutch before in gear, a nice crunch was heard. made me feel like a new driver. lol
 

ice445

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No, it's not. The tranny doesn't know what the hell you're doing. It just matches the rpm of the gear you select, period. If it's lower, it blips the throttle to the correct rpm for the shift. If it's higher, it just doesn't let the engine drop below the correct rpm for the higher gear. Try it at different rpm and gears, and you'd clearly see it's not a random rev-hang, but rpm always stay where the upshift rpm is, wherever it is. It's a brilliant system. And yes, both involve 'rev hang', to give you enough time to complete the shift smoothly.
I've found mine isn't working right on upshifts, it holds the throttle open at the wrong RPM, especially 4th gear. Not sure why.
 

Vlad Soare

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No, it's not. The tranny doesn't know what the hell you're doing. It just matches the rpm of the gear you select, period. If it's lower, it blips the throttle to the correct rpm for the shift. If it's higher, it just doesn't let the engine drop below the correct rpm for the higher gear. Try it at different rpm and gears, and you'd clearly see it's not a random rev-hang, but rpm always stay where the upshift rpm is, wherever it is. It's a brilliant system. And yes, both involve 'rev hang', to give you enough time to complete the shift smoothly.
I tend to agree with this, as it does seem to match my (extremely limited) experience with it. My upshifts are unexpectedly smooth without requiring any effort. I expected them to be jerky until I got used to the clutch, but they are not, regardless of whether I shift at higher or lower rpm. I think an ordinary rev hang wouldn't explain this. It would certainly help to some degree, but it wouldn't be so spot-on each and every time. It does look and feel like rev hang, but it's most likely the computer that decides exactly where to hang in each particular case, and for how long.
 

m3incorp

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I've driven a few cars with Rev Matching and none of the resources refer to it as having anything to do with upshifts. It could be the Rev Hang is a coincidence that it appears to smooth the upshift for something people. Interesting, sometimes I experience what to me is big time Rev Hang but usually I don't experience it and I tend to drive the car a bit aggressive all the time.

Hey or it could be the manufacturer left the feature out of the resources
 

Elp_jc

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my 2020 has locked me out of second a could times when shifting at 7300 rpm, but drops right into 2nd if I short shift at 6500.
Not sure if it'd help you, but higher centrifugal forces require more force to disengage the clutch, and the rubber clutch lines reportedly are the culprit of that. Makes sense to me. So my suggestion is to make sure you're depressing the clutch pedal TO THE FLOOR, to have maximum fluid transfer to the slave cylinder. Try to deliberately do that next time, and see if that helps. If you like to do that often, and still have issues after that experiment, you could switch to S/S braided clutch lines; that reportedly takes care of the problem, according to several posts I've read on this forum. Hope this helps.

I've found mine isn't working right on upshifts, it holds the throttle open at the wrong RPM, especially 4th gear. Not sure why.
That's weird. I've been watching how rev-match works on my car a lot, and when upshifting, no matter which gear or rpm, the rpm are held at exactly the point where I release the clutch on the next gear. Just like the hill-assist feature, if you don't release the clutch for about 2 seconds, it deactivates, and rpm drop to idle, so if you release the clutch after that, the upshift would be jerky, like if you didn't have rev-match activated.

It does look and feel like rev hang, but it's most likely the computer that decides exactly where to hang in each particular case, and for how long.
That. It's incredible. The freaking tach needle doesn't even move where it drops, and when I release the clutch; it's absolutely spot on every time. And the length of time it holds it is the same as the hill-assist brake feature, like I mentioned above; it's about 2 seconds. Play with it, and you'll see how accurate the damn thing is. The only thing you have to do is to master how to release the touchy clutch for perfectly smooth downshifts every time.

As a final comment, those who still say it doesn't work on upshits, watch your upshifts with rev-match on and off, and you'll immediately see what is common sense to many of us. It has to work both ways, since the ECU never knows if you're going to up or downshift. It's called rev-match, not upshift rev-match:devil:.
 

CorvZ061

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Not sure if it'd help you, but higher centrifugal forces require more force to disengage the clutch, and the rubber clutch lines reportedly are the culprit of that. Makes sense to me. So my suggestion is to make sure you're depressing the clutch pedal TO THE FLOOR, to have maximum fluid transfer to the slave cylinder. Try to deliberately do that next time, and see if that helps. If you like to do that often, and still have issues after that experiment, you could switch to S/S braided clutch lines; that reportedly takes care of the problem, according to several posts I've read on this forum. Hope this helps.
I’m probably going to do the lines on mine at some point as well as replace the rear shifter bushing. My other car has a manual clutch, and if it’s not adjusted perfectly it does the same, so I’m used to pushing the clutch all the way to floor, as that’s how I have to drive the Muncie in my other car.
 

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