Mach1 order Poll- Stick or Auto?

[Charlemagne]

Shifting neutral for inspection with running engine, as was said, is the same with both types.

I don't think the lack of clutch matters on icy road. Handling the slide requires no brakes, steering wheel and engine propelling the wheels, where does holding clutch (for any time period) come into play here? Downshift to start decelerating is possible with paddle (lot faster than you would with a clutch and stick).

Why would anyone want to shift to neutral on automatic during driving? I never shift it with manual either only when going to a stop.

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[Norm Peterson]

Shifting neutral for inspection with running engine, as was said, is the same with both types.

I don't think the lack of clutch matters on icy road. Handling the slide requires no brakes, steering wheel and engine propelling the wheels, where does holding clutch (for any time period) come into play here?

Doing so completely isolates the rear tires from the engine and eliminates engine compression braking as a contribution to (or outright cause of) the loss of rear tire grip.

A driver who possesses very good throttle modulation skill can run at precisely "neutral throttle". That said, I'd bet against most any driver taken at random being that good under all likely conditions.

Downshift to start decelerating is possible with paddle (lot faster than you would with a clutch and stick).

On ice, fast downshifting is a very poor choice. The only time it makes any sense to downshift rapidly/harshly is if you lose the car's service brakes.

Why would anyone want to shift to neutral on automatic during driving? I never shift it with manual either only when going to a stop.

To take engine compression braking out of the equation. It's doubtful that most drivers of AT cars would have the presence of mind to think of that, or the throttle modulation skill to hold the car on neutral throttle.


Norm

 

[Charlemagne]

Doing so completely isolates the rear tires from the engine and eliminates engine compression braking as a contribution to (or outright cause of) the loss of rear tire grip.

Right, so engine braking can cause loss of traction too. Gotta put slides to practice, powerslides too ofc. I normally don't go out at all when there's chance of ice on the road. That will apply double with RWD for me. In snow it was manageable fine with FWD and automatic. The most important factor here is lower speed and no sudden movements or harsh braking.

 

[hbash]

Shifting neutral for inspection with running engine, as was said, is the same with both types.

I don't think the lack of clutch matters on icy road. Handling the slide requires no brakes, steering wheel and engine propelling the wheels, where does holding clutch (for any time period) come into play here? Downshift to start decelerating is possible with paddle (lot faster than you would with a clutch and stick).

Why would anyone want to shift to neutral on automatic during driving? I never shift it with manual either only when going to a stop.

The reason that manual, IMHO is far better on ice is because the control of engine speed is to the driver's experience and what the SEE on the road in front of them. It's good to stop the affect of the engine on tire rotation when on ice and put it into the hands and feet of the experienced driver.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Why are we making assumptions about throttle control skills based on transmission choice?

I didn't narrow it down by transmission type or filter the AT drivers out. I only said "most any driver taken at random".

I did say that I think AT drivers are less likely to consider the use of 'N', which would put them on even footing with the MT driver who at least declutches. It's not part of the normal AT driving mindset to do any shifting other than into 'D' or 'R' while driving, or into 'P' when you arrive at your destination and shut the car down/.


Norm

 

[Sivi70980]

I was referring to where you said, "It's doubtful that most drivers of AT cars would have the presence of mind to think of that, or the throttle modulation skill to hold the car on neutral throttle."

Because Auto Boys duh

 

[fastergt350]

Would someone please explain to me just how a simple question like Mach 1 Order-Stick or Auto turned into page after page of discussions on how to drive on Ice, and the bickering is unbelievable. I am going from a Auto back to a Manual because I missed shifting, how easy was that to answer. And I didn't insult anyone's driving ability's or Piss in anyone's cornflakes. Come on people get a grip.

 

[fastergt350]

Because everything in life comes down to one simple question: are you an Auto Boy, or are you a Manual Man. When encountering trouble on the road, the Auto Boy lacks the wherewithal to see themselves to safety. Not so for The Manual Man. He glides effortlessly over such hazards as black ice, deftly operating the clutch while modulating the throttle with an ease akin to breathing. So ask yourself, do you have what it takes to be a Manual Man?

Don't know, just a person waiting for my 2021 Mach 1 to land in my driveway.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Would someone please explain to me just how a simple question like Mach 1 Order-Stick or Auto turned into page after page of discussions on how to drive on Ice, and the bickering is unbelievable. I am going from a Auto back to a Manual because I missed shifting, how easy was that to answer. And I didn't insult anyone's driving ability's or Piss in anyone's cornflakes. Come on people get a grip.

It's a MT vs AT discussion. Differences of opinion are unavoidable.

Different people may have different bases in observation, and it's only bickering if you let the back and forth be bickering. Nobody's driving here was individually called out, but I suppose if you can see that shoe fitting people that you know . . .


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I was referring to where you said, "It's doubtful that most drivers of AT cars would have the presence of mind to think of that, or the throttle modulation skill to hold the car on neutral throttle."

Fair enough, though I realized later that not all MT drivers are all that good about throttle modulation either. Good enough to be able to maintain a reasonably constant speed on level ground is nowhere near good enough for the situations I had in mind. My comment about use of the 'N' position in the PRNDL pattern still stands.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Mik - I remembered seeing this some time ago. Thought it might be pertinent to the tangential topic here. I didn't find mention of any similar system in the 2019 Mustang Owner Manual.

Engine Drag Control (EDC)
EDC improves vehicle stability by
sensing if there is a difference in
speed between the free rolling front
wheels and the rear drive wheels
that often occurs when the driver
takes their foot off the accelerator
pedal on slippery surfaces (snow,
ice, etc.). When this is detected,
EDC sends more torque to the rear
wheels to make sure all four wheels
are spinning at similar speeds,
making the vehicle more stable.

Norm

 

[EFI]

Would someone please explain to me just how a simple question like Mach 1 Order-Stick or Auto turned into page after page of discussions on how to drive on Ice, and the bickering is unbelievable. I am going from a Auto back to a Manual because I missed shifting, how easy was that to answer. And I didn't insult anyone's driving ability's or Piss in anyone's cornflakes. Come on people get a grip.

Because manual man* has nothing else to cling on now besides his ability to drive better on black ice with a manual.

Manual man* used to say manuals were faster, that's no longer the case. Manual man* used to say manuals get better fuel economy, that's no longer the case. Manual man* used to say manuals were better to be in control of at the track, that's no longer the case.

All he's got now is "oh well on the one time you hit black ice, manuals are better".

 

[Norm Peterson]

Interesting. I wonder if the stability control systems in the Mustang do anything similar. Moot point though, if the clutch/neutral is engaged when the system would kick on.

It appears to be using the ABS wheel sensors, so as long as there isn't any driveshaft torque trying to speed up or slow down the rear tires it wouldn't have anything to do. Same if you're good enough with the throttle, it wouldn't have anything to do then either.


A good test of "good enough" might be when you can hold the driving line through NJMP's "lightbulb turn" on the Lightning course, in the rain, and lightly dance between minimal understeer and a touch of oversteer using only the throttle. Close to the limit here, with no steering input. I'd suggest running I-195 northbound through West Deptford in icy conditions up the sideway-sloping uphill near the water tower except even I don't ever want to go through that a second time.


Norm

 

[Sivi70980]

Because manual boys have nothing else to cling on now besides their ability to drive better on black ice with a manual.

Manual boys used to say manuals were faster, that's no longer the case. Manual boys used to say manuals get better fuel economy, that's no longer the case. Manual boys used to say manuals were better to be in control of at the track, that's no longer the case.

All they got now is "oh well on the one time you hit black ice, manuals are better".

That's not the manual crowd saying these things, it's one dude. And it's Manual MAN. Hahah

 

[EFI]

That's not the manual crowd saying these things, it's one dude. And it's Manual MAN. Hahah

Thanks for the correction. Updated my post

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