Low Torque Issue

[TRDFurgesson]

I previously owned a M1 with Tremec. I enjoyed it but felt like the car in low-gear pulls had little torque until way up in the rev-range. I understand that the factory tune made it that way to meet fuel-economy regulations etc. I now have a M1 A10 on order. I never drove one. Will the auto (besides shifting faster) help to mitigate the low-torque feeling of the car during acceleration? Thanks

Not my experience at all, On track at Mid Ohio 2022 with the Tremec. Did you have a 21 or 22? The 22 has a removable restriction on the induction just past the filter.

Sponsored

 

[2021 Mach 1]

Not my experience at all, On track at Mid Ohio 2022 with the Tremec. Did you have a 21 or 22? The 22 has a removable restriction on the induction just past the filter.

I had a '21 M1 Tremec. Also, remember I had a UK/EU spec car, not U.S.

 

[UPee]

You may be disappointed in the acceleration with the A10 as the torque is modulated to about 67% in first gear -even in drag mode. Once it shifts to second it gets full torque, wheel hops and cuts back the throttle to about 52%, then shifts early into 3rd, even with the advanced trac off.

 

[2021 Mach 1]

You may be disappointed in the acceleration with the A10 as the torque is modulated to about 67% in first gear -even in drag mode. Once it shifts to second it gets full torque, wheel hops and cuts back the throttle to about 52%, then shifts early into 3rd, even with the advanced trac off.

Oh no, really? That's not good. Really disappointed.

 

[glockholiday]

You won't be disappointed in the A10. Like the gear ratio chart shows 1st & 2nd are both lower ratio than the Tremec 1st gear. Through acceleration the A10 keeps the rpm at peak numbers through every shift. Plain and simple the A10 is faster. For playtime sport mode will make it a lot more fun and in manual shift mode you can make it do what ever you want with the paddle shifters. And to top it off when taking it easy with the 3.15 rear end I average mid to high 20s mpg.

 

[WD Pro]

You may be disappointed in the acceleration with the A10 as the torque is modulated to about 67% in first gear -even in drag mode. Once it shifts to second it gets full torque, wheel hops and cuts back the throttle to about 52%, then shifts early into 3rd, even with the advanced trac off.

Interested to know where those percentages came from and do you have the equivalent numbers for a manual car ?

Cheers,

WD

 

[murick]

You won't be disappointed in the A10. Like the gear ratio chart shows 1st & 2nd are both lower ratio than the Tremec 1st gear.

I am not sure to which configuration you refer, but on Mach 1, the gear ratios are the ones I posted earlier in this thread. Plus on the US version the diff gear is different on manual vs automatic as well (3.55 on auto, 3.73 on manual). On the UK version (which the OP is probably expecting) is the diff gear the same for both 3.55.

What is more interesting is the remark from @UPee above, about the potential torque throttling at certain conditions. This could also heavily impact the initial performance.

Anyway, it would be cool to compare the auto shifting strategy with the manual head to head, but I guess we will just need to wait for the OP to let us know .

 

[UPee]

Interested to know where those percentages came from and do you have the equivalent numbers for a manual car ?

Cheers,

WD

Those numbers come from a data log - see attached file. Took awhile to figure out what was going on.
In 1st gear it is simple math to check the acceleration which shows the torque modulation.

Then you can see when it shifts from 1st to second it spins, then the throttle cuts back and shifts early into 3rd. Brought car in to local dealer with data - FORD engineering said it is "NORMAL" .
that is what is supposed to do. Computer detects wheel hop and cuts power. That run was a 4.7x 0-60. Should be under 4.2.

 

[murick]

Those numbers come from a data log - see attached file.

What do you use to record those logs?

 

[UPee]

HP Tuners - VCM Scanner data log, then saved to excel for analysis.

 

[wingnutt]

My main goal is to come out of a turn and punch it and lay some rubber and get a bit sideways

if you couldnt do that on a whim with a manual…you were in the wrong dam gear

 

[Wickedluis]

The power band of this car is in the 4-7k rpm range. Anything below that will be sluggish. You'd need a Camaro for more low end with a pushrod engine. Your other solution is a Whipple.

I was searching whipple and this comment came up. I just had a stage 2 installed in my 2022 gt, but I cant really tell the difference from stock. from what you posted the whipple should have made it a lot quicker on the lower rpms , but its not in my case .

 

[2021 Mach 1]

I was searching whipple and this comment came up. I just had a stage 2 installed in my 2022 gt, but I cant really tell the difference from stock. from what you posted the whipple should have made it a lot quicker on the lower rpms , but its not in my case .

You have a Stage 2 Whipple and you cannot tell much difference from a standard engine? Do you have a manual or an auto? Do you mean just at low RPM?

 

[luca1290]

My current thoughts are to first drive the car stock, then put on an X-pipe, then do a tune to increase low-end torque, then put on headers/hi-flow cats. But at any step stop if I'm satisfied. The less mods the better. Obviously, if that's not enough then go for the Whipple.

I'm sorry but that's not how it works.
By doing that you reduce back pressure which will, in turn, reduce low-end torque.

You are driving a NA engine, so if you want power (that is not only torque), you must rev it.

And autos have a torque converter in front of them, so you actually have more torque going to the wheels. And are quicker than manuals, especially on European ones that have a very long final ratio.... but you want torque... or power?

... and from your other posts I assume you are lacking some knowledge, so next time before blaming a 450 HP car with 529Nm of torque, take a driving lesson beforehand.

I'm not here to lambast anyone but sometimes it's too much.

 

[2021 Mach 1]

I'm sorry but that's not how it works.
By doing that you reduce back pressure which will, in turn, reduce low-end torque.

You are driving a NA engine, so if you want power (that is not only torque), you must rev it.

And autos have a torque converter in front of them, so you actually have more torque going to the wheels. And are quicker than manuals, especially on European ones that have a very long final ratio.... but you want torque... or power?

... and from your other posts I assume you are lacking some knowledge, so next time before blaming a 450 HP car with 529Nm of torque, take a driving lesson beforehand.

I'm not here to lambast anyone but sometimes it's too much.

I'm sorry. I will ask the moderator to delete the thread. Apologies.

Sponsored