Local dealer discounting again.

[young at heart]

Not sure where you've heard that, but there's several thousands of dollars between dealer invoice and MSRP on an average Mustang.

Right here:

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[KingKona]

Right here:

LOL!!!!

That's bogus. Something to show customers as a sales tool. I sold cars decades ago, just one of the tricks.

All the dealers advertising $4K+ - $5K+ off certainly shows you that there's a lot more profit in cars than you've been lead to believe;

My car's sticker was $45,000.00, and they took $7K off it. They certainly still made money selling me the car.

 

[Seanuf99]

Very good point, and Microsoft recently announced 10,000 layoff, and Google parent Alphabet announced 12,000.

So, yeah, your points combined with what I said, are probably the driving forces here.

If I weren't wanting an S650, (though I'd wait until '25 or '26 because I NEVER buy first gen anything; car, phone, tablet... nothing first gen), or if there were new S550 with the spec I want anywhere within 200 miles, I might buy now.

But, I in general, I would prefer an S650 or an S550 GT Premium with 401A, PP1, Magnaride, and Active Exhaust... and neither of those are currently available... I'll watch the madness and keep my fingers crossed for good deals for those currently buying.

Looking for an automatic? Theres one for sale near me meets everything you listed.

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

LOL!!!!

That's bogus. Something to show customers as a sales tool. I sold cars decades ago, just one of the tricks.

All the dealers advertising $4K+ off certainly shows you that there's a lot more than profit in cars than you've been lead to believe;

My car's sticker was $45,000.00, and they took $7K off it. They certainly still made money selling me the car.

Yes, invoice is not true dealer cost— it’s way more complicated than that.

 

[MustangFL]

Looking for an automatic? Theres one for sale near me meets everything you listed.

Do tell?

And where might that be?

Thank you very much for pointing me in that direction.

 

[Seanuf99]

Do tell?

And where might that be?

Thank you very much for pointing me in that direction.

PM'd you the link.

 

[cerbomark]

4 or 6 grand off is not a useful metric.
Percentage from MSRP is.

Ourisman is approaching 10pct off MSRP across most of the Mustang fleet. True cost to dealer is 6 to 8 pct below invoice, or 10-13pct below MSRP. Or so I've been able to surmise

if you can breach below 15, it's probably being sold at a book loss and secondary kickbacks are being used to get back into the black.

For f150, the numbers are even lower.

That sounds right as my 21 M1 was 4% below invoice. So dealer made the 2-4% below invoice difference.
EDIT/after reading other stuff here it appears they may have made a little more than %4, if true I still paid %4 under invoice listed from Ford. all their hold back and other tricks for selling units adds up for the dealer.

 

[young at heart]

LOL!!!!

That's bogus. Something to show customers as a sales tool. I sold cars decades ago, just one of the tricks.

All the dealers advertising $4K+ off certainly shows you that there's a lot more than profit in cars than you've been lead to believe;

My car's sticker was $45,000.00, and they took $7K off it. They certainly still made money selling me the car.

Hope you did well selling cars. I did fairly well too, but as a dealer principal/owner of 4 different new car dealerships during a 40+ year career. I haven’t “been led to believe” anything but I believe that I can say with confidence that neither Ford nor any other automobile manufacturer publishes a “bogus” invoice designed to fool the consumer. So probably no need to LOL…

Now, while what I showed you is indeed a legitimate document, it may or may not reflect the actual final price the dealer pays Ford for the vehicle. Many things can impact that and I believe I actually indicated that in my post. But it does show true dealer invoice and that’s what I was talking about.

 

[young at heart]

Yes, invoice is not true dealer cost— it’s way more complicated than that.

This is true Mike.

It can be (less holdback) but by no means is it always. But it is always invoice, by definition.

 

[KingKona]

Hope you did well selling cars. I did fairly well too, but as a dealer principal/owner of 4 different new car dealerships during a 40+ year career. I haven’t “been led to believe” anything but I believe that I can say with confidence that neither Ford nor any other automobile manufacturer publishes a “bogus” invoice designed to fool the consumer. So probably no need to LOL…

Now, while what I showed you is indeed a legitimate document, it may or may not reflect the actual final price the dealer pays Ford for the vehicle. Many things can impact that and I believe I actually indicated that in my post. But it does show true dealer invoice and that’s what I was talking about.

It's bogus.

Did you own a Ford dealership?

 

[young at heart]

It's bogus.

Did you own a Ford dealership?

KK, no. Chevy plus 3 different import lines. But if you never believe another thing anyone tells you, you should believe that no legitimate auto manufacturer dummies up any kind of bogus document designed to trick the consumer. In this age of consumerism can you imagine the blowback and sanctions that would generate? Heck, no need anyway; the manufacturers leave the tricks to the dealers !

If it’s been a long time since you’ve been in the business what may be throwing you off a bit is the narrowing of retail markups between invoice and MSRP. In an effort I suppose to moderate high MSRPs, several years ago the factories reduced the spread from as much as 10-15% down to as little as 4-6%. It changed the face of the business pretty dramatically.

 

[Cobra Jet]

So I visit and watch a lot of Mustang classifieds - all over, forums, socials, locals, and the common larger online Ad Vendors.

With that said, I have quite a few Mustangs tagged through my various searches. Some of these vehicles have been sitting stagnant for months. Over the last 6-8 weeks, I've now seen pretty substantial price reductions. I'm talking price reductions in the $5k-$7k range.

What was said in 2022 Q4 that the vehicle market will start tanking, it's definitely starting from what I've been watching. It's a combo of very high interest rates now and I think the public is finally getting sick of the insane pricing on used vehicles, as well as new car Dealers not wanting to work off of MSRP with their insane ADM markups.

Every day a vehicle (new or used) sits on a Dealer's lot, they're losing money AND it's a liability for them, more so when that vehicle has sat for months on end. This is why some vehicles are being reduced quite significantly from say 4-6 mos ago.

So if you're seeking a Mustang - definitely watch the pricing in the next few weeks because prices are dropping.

 

[young at heart]

So I visit and watch a lot of Mustang classifieds - all over, forums, socials, locals, and the common larger online Ad Vendors.

With that said, I have quite a few Mustangs tagged through my various searches. Some of these vehicles have been sitting stagnant for months. Over the last 6-8 weeks, I've now seen pretty substantial price reductions. I'm talking price reductions in the $5k-$7k range.

What was said in 2022 Q4 that the vehicle market will start tanking, it's definitely starting from what I've been watching. It's a combo of very high interest rates now and I think the public is finally getting sick of the insane pricing on used vehicles, as well as new car Dealers not wanting to work off of MSRP with their insane ADM markups.

Every day a vehicle (new or used) sits on a Dealer's lot, they're losing money AND it's a liability for them, more so when that vehicle has sat for months on end. This is why some vehicles are being reduced quite significantly from say 4-6 mos ago.

So if you're seeking a Mustang - definitely watch the pricing in the next few weeks because prices are dropping.

CJ, how do you see Mustang inventories sitting right now?

I don’t study up on it like you but I sure don’t see a lot of them laying around on dealers’s lots.

 

[Cobra Jet]

KK, no. Chevy plus 3 different import lines. But if you never believe another thing anyone tells you, you should believe that no legitimate auto manufacturer dummies up any kind of bogus document designed to trick the consumer. In this age of consumerism can you imagine the blowback and sanctions that would generate? Heck, no need anyway; the manufacturers leave the tricks to the dealers !

If it’s been a long time since you’ve been in the business what may be throwing you off a bit is the narrowing of retail markups between invoice and MSRP. In an effort I suppose to moderate high MSRPs, several years ago the factories reduced the spread from as much as 10-15% down to as little as 4-6%. It changed the face of the business pretty dramatically.

Agree with your post.

What some don't understand is that any ADM above the Manufacturers Window Sticker is NOT the Manufacturer marking up that vehicle. It's the Dealership alone and any ADM penny above the MSRP on the window sticker only benefits the Dealership, not the Manufacturer.

Me personally - never have and never will pay any ADM, I don't care how rare or limited the vehicle may be - because I'll find that same sister vehicle elsewhere without an ADM.

So if there's a Dealership with a new car that has any ADM on it - walk - no one is forcing anyone's hand to pay more just because the Dealer slapped some happy horse shit $50k ADM next to the window sticker.

One more thing - since ADM was not an original line item on the original Manufacturer window sticker and is outside the MSRP, in some instances, if a Lemon or Buy Back claim is initiated, the Manufacturer has no obligation to refund ADM costs at all. Ford RAV will not entertain refunding ADM, the consumer has to take that up with the Dealership where the car was purchased to try to get them to cough the ADM back up.

 

[Cobra Jet]

CJ, how do you see Mustang inventories sitting right now?

I don’t study up on it like you but I sure don’t see a lot of them laying around on dealers’s lots.

So not sure what you use for research, but on sites like CarGurus - (1 of many I use on a daily basis), when clicking on a vehicle, in the details window if you scroll down on lower left side of the pane, it will show how long the car has been sitting (days). In quite a few instances, I've seen the counts @180 days and beyond... that's a long time to sit in on a lot.

The other key to researching, which I always post in these type of threads - open your search up to "Nationwide" or "all" for distance from your zip code. By doing so you get the grand scheme of vehicle values as well as if the car is stagnant... If you keep to only your zip code, or within say 100 miles of it, yes it would appear that vehicles are "moving", but many are not.

Here's just 1 example of many, this S550 50th LE has been sitting for 219 days. The price has been reduced multiple times since JULY 2022..... Yes it's a niche Mustang, but I've seen this with MANY vehicles. If you go into the ad listing, scroll almost 3/4 way down, you will see "Price History" and above it the count of how long it's been sitting, see my screen image below.

2015 Ford Mustang GT 50 Years Limited Location: Maumee, OH
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/link/332559450

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