Limp Mode on the Track

[crazyfish]

Very, very offensive comment - just so you know.

I've posted too many times already about my personal decision process and the reasoning I went through. But what the heck, why not go there yet one more time? :doh:

Just briefly. I had my base 2015 Mustang GT at the track. No problems. About 18 months ago, before any GT350s were on the street, before anyone heard of limp mode, I made my decision to buy a tech pack GT350. I knew I was going to the track and I knew that Ford said I should add coolers. However, I also knew that it was marketed to be "track capable" and even "the most track capable Mustang ever". I also knew that a base GT would do ok at the track. I figured the tech and base GT350s would outdo a base Mustang GT. At the time, it seemed reasonable to me. Crazy and idiotic, right? What the heck was I thinking? I must be really stupid!!

I would have believed that on a 90+ F day the coolers would be needed - sure that is reasonable, I thought. Or the coolers would be needed for an hour plus track session. I knew I didn't need an "all day" track car. I just needed 20-30 minutes at a time. I would have never guessed that 3 minutes at high speed would cause the car to get too hot, either. I also would never have guessed that over a year later Ford Performance still wouldn't offer coolers for the car.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I've been over this decision in my head many times. I know I made the right decision with the information I had at the time. I still think that in the end the car will be great once I'm able to get the coolers on it. Waiting is a little painful. Passing on a few track events I'd like to attend also is irritating. Hopefully by next spring it will be a memory and nothing more.

My reason to buy the base or any gt350 was pretty much the same thing. Per advertising. Ford is releasing the most track capable Mustang ever in the New "gt350"

Again I agree. Never be vague but all the advertising said "most track capable ever". That I would assume means ALL gt350's would be capable to run the track in some fashion of a HPDE for at least 30 minutes at a time and definitely better and at least the same as a standard GT. Granted assuming "track packs and R's" running all day long on the track.

I have not had this problem with mine yet but I agree adding coolers to these cars should have been from the factory. Just for longevity reasons of mechanics.

Hope to see a solution soon

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[montreal ponies]

My reason to buy the base or any gt350 was pretty much the same thing. Per advertising. Ford is releasing the most track capable Mustang ever in the New "gt350"

Again I agree. Never be vague but all the advertising said "most track capable ever". That I would assume means ALL gt350's would be capable to run the track in some fashion of a HPDE for at least 30 minutes at a time and definitely better and at least the same as a standard GT. Granted assuming "track packs and R's" running all day long on the track.

I have not had this problem with mine yet but I agree adding coolers to these cars should have been from the factory. Just for longevity reasons of mechanics.

Hope to see a solution soon

I took my decision based on the same reasonning as [MENTION=12069]Hack[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20297]crazyfish[/MENTION]

 

[superman07]

You think it's BS the car without a cooler you chose not to get can't handle 163 indefinitely?

What did you think the cooler was for?

I do agree there option package on the 16s was retarded. But take some personal responsibility

under 4 fricking minutes, the car is a glass cannon sans cooler. There is no way Ford tested these in the heat in any spirited sessions, or with anything close to combining load and weight. Fill up your trunk, add a passenger or two and hit a incline. You can go up 12 degrees in just a passing run.

 

[superman07]

I agree with this somewhat....while there is nothing wrong with the tech pack cars for commuting and spirited driving. Those who bought tech package cars KNOWING that the planned to go to the track didn't make a smart decision. They chose"comfort" over function. Why wouldnot you opt for the car with the word "track" in its name when you had every intention of taking the car to the track. I agree that the way ford advertised this car being "track capable" was misleading in regards to the tech package cars. But again if one was planning to track their car, why whlouldnt you purchase the most track capable option?

You sir have no idea of the real issues.

Combine temp, load, and some extra weight and you can hit Limp at will off course.

 

[firestarter2]

under 4 fricking minutes, the car is a glass cannon sans cooler. There is no way Ford tested these in the heat in any spirited sessions, or with anything close to combining load and weight. Fill up your trunk, add a passenger or two and hit a incline. You can go up 12 degrees in just a passing run.

Did ford test a non track car at well above 100 mph for a extended period of time? no probably not its not a use case that should exist lol

 

[superman07]

I suppose everything has been said about this BS. I just wanted to get in on the thread to keep in touch with any new options coming out.



Also, If anyone is keeping track, I might have the record. After 6 minutes to warm everything up, I took off and managed limp mode 3 minutes 36 seconds later. (autobahn)

It was an awesome 3 minutes though... covered 15.8km. that's 163mph average including a 90-120mph curve...

EDIT: Oh and one more thing.. I think the one argument that should be made is that any V8 camaro I buy today has a transmission and diff cooler. A 1SS can run longer on the track than I can.. Ford should be embarrassed..

Dare I say they learned from the Z06. 2017 Z06 has added cooling, and the Camaro comes from the factory properly.

Congrats though FordMoCo, the 800 bucks a unit you saved to give the base and tech a different transmission unit, super smart move. Had they no idea some folks would minimally desire a retrofit? The Camaro is fugly, and has no soul. I couldn't own one, but the folks at GM seem to be getting their performance shit together. Ford is lucky that car is ugly as shit.

 

[firestarter2]

Because, as you clearly noted, Ford advertised it as track capable in all versions. So if not going to the track often or for extended periods (once-twice a year) why over invest? Ford owes a solution, period.

By the way, the example here was not track. It was Autobahn.

I think you are arguing semantics. If you build a car and SEE a track option and then dont pick you need to own that.

NOW alot of people probably bought the car not even knowing there was a track option.

Where did ford say all models where track capable?

I never seen a ford advertisement for the car....

 

[superman07]

Did ford test a non track car at well above 100 mph for a extended period of time? no probably not its not a use case that should exist lol

extended, 3.5 minutes. I could be super snarky, but lets just agree as gentlemen that we have different ideas in this regard.

FYI, I can easily hit limp mode under 100 just driving spirited, with passengers.

Its not as simple as high speed runs = heat. My point has been from the start the threshold for combining the factors for heat buildup are simply too low for this nameplate in any trim level.

 

[firestarter2]

Dare I say they learned from the Z06. 2017 Z06 has added cooling, and the Camaro comes from the factory properly.

Congrats though FordMoCo, the 800 bucks a unit you saved to give the base and tech a different transmission unit, super smart move. Had they no idea some folks would minimally desire a retrofit? The Camaro is fugly, and has no soul. I couldn't own one, but the folks at GM seem to be getting their performance shit together. Ford is lucky that car is ugly as shit.

You didnt pay for the coolers so you didnt get them.. Why is that fords fault?

 

[5.0 435]

Did ford test a non track car at well above 100 mph for a extended period of time? no probably not its not a use case that should exist lol

Ford knew about the heat issues , how else would they develope the needed coolers in the first place.

 

[firestarter2]

extended, 3.5 minutes. I could be super snarky, but lets just agree as gentlemen that we have different ideas in this regard.

FYI, I can easily hit limp mode under 100 just driving spirited, with passengers.

Its not as simple as high speed runs = heat. My point has been from the start the threshold for combining the factors for heat buildup are simply too low for this nameplate in any trim level.

Averaging 163 over 3.5 is extreme. I think you may have unrealistic expectations. Name some other 60k that will do that?

You can or you have? Under a 100 limp mode I would say is a problem.

 

[firestarter2]

Ford knew about the heat issues , how else would they develope the needed coolers in the first place.

That is why the track models have cooler and R have coolers. I think you have missed the point.

 

[superman07]

I think you are arguing semantics. If you build a car and SEE a track option and then dont pick you need to own that.

NOW alot of people probably bought the car not even knowing there was a track option.

Where did ford say all models where track capable?

I never seen a ford advertisement for the car....

there are several Ford press releases and Web sites that effectively state the gt350 moniker is the most track capable, with further clarification the r and track are for all day track driving. Google search. I posted a couple URLs in a different thread.

Fords media blitz and certainly dealers had zero info as to the performance delta across cooler versus no cooler at the time I bought.

Like many I was at the mercy of the dealer that already ordered my car. That said given the info at the time I still expected this trim level t be more dependable in DD.

 

[superman07]

You can or you have? Under a 100 limp mode I would say is a problem.

I now monitor my temps with the NGuage and shut the car down when I get to 260-270 as I do not want to deal with the Limp mode power cut and possibly risk an accident. I am also not a fan of running the fluid that hot to prove a point.

I live 20-30 miles from anything, My drives are typically going to be 45 minutes or so or even longer. Perhaps the time spent driving is unique to me, however there have been several others that have also hit the threshold and many more like me know that monitor so as to not experience the ecu power cut on the road.

Ford Customer Service has asked to work with a local dealer however like many others I cannot scan any codes from the limp mode so I am not sure where or how the car even keeps track of the event.

 

[Hack]

You didnt pay for the coolers so you didnt get them.. Why is that fords fault?

Ford didn't offer them in the "most track capable Mustang ever". I would have paid. Heck, I would have bought a track pack if it would have been clear a couple years ago that the heat issues would be so severe. Why put track capable brakes on a car and then not make the car capable of track driving? A regular Mustang GT without the PP option could test the brakes a lot more than a GT350 tech/base.

Almost any factory car can go to the track and lap no problem. It's silly to claim that people should assume they need the track option in order to go to an HPDE. I've only been to the track a couple times, but if you ever go there you will see all kinds of things. SUVs, 4 cylinder cars, old V8 sedans, etc. I've never seen any of them have to pull off the track repeatedly - especially in relatively cool weather like we have in Minnesota.

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