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Limp Mode on the Track

Essex Wire

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Again, if the "limp mode" or "partial limp mode" is just a fluke on a few cars, this is not a big issue, but if it is in all our Tech and Base cars it is serious problem Ford needs to remedy. To all those nay-sayers and people who say we should have known better and ordered the Track Pkg, I'd simply invite you to review Ford Performance's official Press and Publicity material site at https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/products/cars/mustang/shelby-gt350-mustang.html to see all the statements and materials we relied on in buying our Tech Pkg cars.

First, there's this little gem, specifically about the transmission deeper inside the site:

"Harder, faster, better


The high-revving 5.2-liter engine is paired with the much-lauded Tremec TR-3160 six-speed manual transmission. The unit has been heavily revised for Shelby GT350 to cope with high engine speeds and the rigors of track duty, and to provide the kind of precision engagement, smoothness, and reduction in weight and rotating inertia demanded by Ford Performance."


Do you see it saying this only applies to the Track version or R?


Then, here's the text from the main page. Almost every sentence talks about performance on Track (including statements about "running all-day on track"); and then show me where, anywhere Ford says all this amazing track performance is just limited to the Track Package, the Tech Package car can't do the track stuff.



I really, really hope Ford is paying attention and makes this right by us.




Shelby GT350 Mustang The all-new Shelby GT350 Mustang, featuring the most powerful naturally aspirated Ford production engine ever, is a world-class performance vehicle, designed to tackle the planet’s most challenging roads – an all-day track car that’s also street legal.

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One of the most iconic performance Mustang nameplates of all time is returning, Ford confirmed today with the reveal of the all-new Shelby® GT350 Mustang.
The original Shelby GT350 introduced in 1965 established Mustang’s performance credentials. The all-new Shelby GT350 Mustang, featuring the most powerful naturally aspirated Ford production engine ever, is a world-class performance vehicle, designed to tackle the planet’s most challenging roads – an all-day track car that’s also street legal.
The new GT350 builds on Carroll Shelby’s original idea – transforming a great every-day car into a dominant road racer – by taking advantage of a dramatically improved sixth-generation Mustang to create a truly special driving experience. Driving enthusiasts behind the wheel of a Shelby GT350 can expect to be treated to the most balanced, nimble and exhilarating production Mustang yet.


Ford engineers took an innovative approach with GT350. Rather than develop individual systems to perform well independently, every component and shape is optimized to work in concert; balance is the key. While paying rigorous attention to detail, the team pushed the envelope with cutting-edge materials and technologies.


“When we started working on this car, we wanted to build the best possible Mustang for the places we most love to drive – challenging back roads with a variety of corners and elevation changes – and the track on weekends,” said Raj Nair, Ford group vice president, Global Product Development. “Every change we made to this car was driven by the functional requirements of a powerful, responsive powerplant – nimble, precise handling and massive stopping power.”


Track-tuned driveline

Early in development of the GT350, it was decided a high-revving, naturally aspirated V8 engine would best suit a track-focused Mustang.


“The final product is essentially an all-new powerplant unique to GT350 – and one that takes true advantage of the new chassis dynamics of the Mustang platform,” said Jamal Hameedi, chief engineer, Ford Global Performance Vehicles.


The new 5.2-liter engine is the first-ever production V8 from Ford with a flat-plane crankshaft, an architecture typically found only in racing applications or exotic European sports cars. Unlike a traditional V8, where the connecting rods are attached to the crankshaft at 90-degree intervals, this design evenly spaces all crank pins at 180-degree intervals.


The 180-degree, flat-plane layout permits a cylinder firing order that alternates between cylinder banks, reducing the overlap of exhaust pressure pulses. When combined with cylinder-head and valvetrain advancements, this permits better cylinder breathing, further extending the performance envelope of the V8.


The result is the most powerful naturally aspirated production Ford engine ever, at more than 500 horsepower, with a torque peak above 400 lb.-ft. The track capability is enhanced by the output characteristics of the engine – the 5.2-liter V8 features an exceptionally broad torque curve. Combined with its high-revving ability, the flat-plane 5.2-liter V8 gives drivers an enormous amount of performance and flexibility within each gear of the lightweight six-speed manual transmission. A standard Ford-tuned Torsen limited-slip differential optimizes cornering grip and straight-line traction.
“Make no mistake, this is an American interpretation of a flat-plane crankshaft V8, and the 5.2-liter produces a distinctive, throaty howl from its four exhaust tips,” said Hameedi.

Balanced dynamics

The new Mustang platform is the strongest in the history of the brand, with torsional stiffness increased 28 percent over the previous model. That stiff structure ensures the suspension geometry remains consistent, even under hard driving on back roads and tracks. Front stiffness is further improved on GT350 with a cutting-edge injection-molded carbon fiber composite grille opening and optional lightweight tower-to-tower brace. The front track has been increased while spring rates and bushings have been recalibrated all around, with ride height reduced compared to Mustang GT.


For optimum handling, the wheels need to respond quickly to the contours of the road and driver input. Reducing unsprung mass is key to improving that response, but a balance must be struck between taking mass out of a suspension and delivering truly capable braking performance.


Due to the significant speeds the car can develop, GT350 features the most track-credible brake system ever offered on a Ford vehicle in terms of absolute stopping power, fade resistance and brake pedal feel. The brakes are two-piece cross-drilled iron discs mounted to aluminum hats. At the front are massive 394-millimeter rotors clamped by Brembo six-piston fixed calipers with integrated caliper bridges, while 380-millimeter rotors at the rear utilize four-piston calipers.


GT350 makes use of extra-stiff 19-inch aluminum-alloy wheels – 10.5 inches wide in front, 11.0 inches in the rear – clad in state-of-the-art Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires with GT350-specific sidewall construction, tread face and compound. The custom tires are designed to deliver maximum grip on the road or at the track.


Ultra-quick responsiveness to changing conditions is provided by the first-ever Ford application of continuously controlled MagneRide dampers. The dampers are filled with a hydraulic fluid impregnated with iron particles; when an electric current is passed through the fluid, a near-instant adjustment of the suspension performance can be made. With wheel position sensors monitoring motion thousands of times per second combined with other vehicle data, changes can be made to each corner independently every 10 milliseconds for optimum handling performance. This is a system designed not just to make the car handle better but to instill greater confidence in even the best driver.

Obsession to detail
“Everything we changed on GT350 is purely functional-driven design, with the goal of improving the overall performance of the car,” said Chris Svensson, Ford design director, The Americas. “We optimized the aero shape of the car, and then fine-tuned what was left to increase downforce and cooling airflow.” All bodywork from the windshield forward is unique to this high-performance model and up to two inches lower than Mustang GT.
The new aluminum hood has been lowered and sloped, compared to the base Mustang, tightly wrapped around the engine for the smallest possible aerodynamic signature. Front and rear aero elements have been balanced to work together on the track. The fascia has been resculpted to provide the aggressive lower front splitter with maximum pressure and a ducted belly pan delivers significant downforce. The hood outlet acts as a heat extractor while also reducing underhood lift at high speed. At the rear, much of the engineering was focused on creating an aggressive functional diffuser doing double duty to increase downforce and provide cooling air to the optional differential cooler, and a subtle lip spoiler across the trailing edge of the decklid increases downforce without adding excess drag.


The athletic stance of the all-new Mustang is further accentuated with recontoured aluminum front fenders to accommodate the wider front track and wider wheel arches. Front fender vents work with vented inner fenders to draw out turbulent air in the wheel wells and smoothly direct it down the side of the car. The forward-angled grille is designed with individual openings to draw air through the radiator, high-pressure engine air intake, cooling ducts for the front brakes and, optional with the Track Pack, an engine oil cooler and a transmission cooler.

Focus-driven cockpit changes
Like everything else about GT350, the interior has been optimized for driving, beginning with the specially designed Recaro sport seats with a unique cloth. Hundreds of hours and many prototypes went into a seat that is both comfortable in daily driving and capable on the track. A flat-bottom steering wheel makes it easier for the driver to get in and out, and is more ergonomic on the racetrack. Gauges are upgraded to reflect the enormous performance capability of the car. Chrome and bright finishes have been reduced or eliminated to prevent sun glare that may distract the driver.
The advanced technology inherent to Mustang has been deployed for duty in the Shelby GT350. An all-new integrated driver control system allows selection of five unique modes that tailor ABS, stability control, traction control, steering effort, throttle mapping, MagneRide tuning and exhaust settings, depending on driver preference, to achieve maximum performance. Drivers are invited to test them all.


Drivers interested in comfort, convenience and entertainment upgrades may select the Tech Pack, which includes power, leather-trimmed seats; Shaker Audio; 8-inch MyFord Touch® LCD touch screen; and dual zone electronic temperature control, to name a few features.


“We took the best Ford Mustang yet and massaged every aspect of the car that affects the performance driving experience,” said Hameedi. “We tested endlessly on the most challenging roads and tracks in the world, and we believe serious drivers will love the Shelby GT350 Mustang.”
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snaproll

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My last track outing was on a 2.5 miles road course with my 2013 Mustang GT (my son driving) and my 2014 SS Sedan (6.2L V8 with Brembo brakes). We were hitting speeds of 140+mph on the straight and 110mph on the big sweep. No issues with either car running six 20 minute sessions except the Mustang suffered brake fade bigtime.
I understand the complaint. The difference is none of the older mustangs have trans temp sensors if that is indeed the issue. Just trying to point out the reality of a high HP track car. They get hot and wear out brakes, tires, fluids, and anything else that's loaded quickly. An 05-06 Ford GT wouldn't do 5 consecutive hot laps without powering down. That's just the way it works. New cars have nannys. They can probably be defeated by a good tuner or maybe by unplugging the sensor and plugging the hole or whatever works.
 

TRACK CRAZY GT350

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Really, I do know a bit about tracking mustangs. I don't do much video but the above are a couple wet laps at Sebring. With a GT350, are taking a 526 HP 8,000 rpm 3,700 lb car without the track pack and complaining the factory electronics might save your trans?
So you are driving some type of race prep. mustang not a GT350. So what in the world are you talking about [ complaining the factory electronics might save your trans?]. :headbonk:
 

Spa2k

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I understand that but Mike has already agreed to help me get these concerns to the right eyes/ears.
That's exactly what he told me this afternoon. I suggested that Ford Performance needs to get tranny and diff cooler kits in its catalog ASAP.
 

lemers

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Bottom line is that Ford said the base/tech package GT350s would handle 20 min track sessions. So it should be able. The car is described as "the most track capable mustang". So, then the real test, take a 5.0 and a base/tech package GT350 to the track and run them for 20 mins at a time on the same day with the same driver. If the GT350 goes into limp mode and the 5.0 doesn't then there is a problem.


2016 GT350 Magnetic w/Black Stripes / Black Roof /Tech Package Build January, ETA March (US Port), Germany Apr, under MSRP
 

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Dave2013M3

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If Ford does indeed intend to offer the coolers as an FRPP part, they also have to agree to warranty the car with the FRPP parts. Imagine having a warranty claim on your tranny denied due to having an aftermarket cooler installed.
 

snaproll

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So you are driving some type of race prep. mustang not a GT350. So what in the world are you talking about [ complaining the factory electronics might save your trans?]. :headbonk:
Race prep = no trans or diff coolers, stock GT500 trans. Stock boss motor at that time, stock 8.8 axle, etc.

I guarantee you the trans and rear experience some insane temps on track in my car, a Boss 302, or a Mustang GT for that matter. I choose to ignore them at my own risk. If the trans temps were previously not measured on a mustang, but now are on a GT350, isn't that a good thing? Now you know why you need a cooler and why they offer a cooler right from the showroom floor. Seems fairly logical to me.

Again, if the engine isn't shutting down like will even on a Ford GT, the GT350 is indeed more track worthy than any other factory street mustang. Trans and rear temp issues are a minor concern if you are going to beat a 500 HP mustang on the track. It costs about $1,000/day in tires, brakes, and consumables to run a mustang hard at the track. Throwing a cooler at a Tech package car does not seem to be the end of the world.

BWTFDIK
 

Caballus

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Based on their own marketing, it would seem that Ford has two obligations:

1. Make whatever modifications necessary to ensure all variants of the GT350 can endure more than 10-20 minutes on the track. How much more is TBD, but 10-20 minutes is unreasonable and by no means does it meet the expectations Ford created through its media campaign. This should be done as a recall at no expense to the consumer.

2. Assuming that #1 can be achieved by some means other than transmission and differential coolers, ensure that coolers that will not void the warranty are available for purchase by those who desire them.

As for disbelief that Ford would ever go so far, consider the corporation's obligation to the consumer based on their marketing, which is well quoted in postings throughout this forum. Also, consider the leverage of thousands of consumers that can afford to purchase a $60,000 sports car.

A useful adage comes to mind: "never negotiate against yourself."
 

84venom

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Has anyone with a Track Pack car reported overheating problems on track?
 

84venom

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I would have to assume that Ford did extensive testing of the 350, even non-track pack cars with no coolers. If that is true, they would have probably addressed this issue, if it indeed was an issue. Maybe we're just talking about a handful of cars that are having electronic issues or perhaps even a manufacturing issue within the transmissions? A few undesirable tolerances inside the trans could cause higher than normal temperatures. Couple that with a touchy sensor and voila, computer shut down...
 

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Hack

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I would have to assume that Ford did extensive testing of the 350, even non-track pack cars with no coolers. If that is true, they would have probably addressed this issue, if it indeed was an issue. Maybe we're just talking about a handful of cars that are having electronic issues or perhaps even a manufacturing issue within the transmissions? A few undesirable tolerances inside the trans could cause higher than normal temperatures. Couple that with a touchy sensor and voila, computer shut down...
I hope you're right.
 

84venom

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I hope you're right.
Ford will surely work with any owners who experience this issue. It's clearly a warranty issue, and they know the whole "you shoulda bought a Track Pack" argument wont fly. Trust me, they don't want a class action lawsuit surrounding one of their benchmark performance cars!!!
 

Strokerswild

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Yeesh, this whole thing smells faintly of the '99 Cobra debacle.....

No doubt it's BS, but my money is on some incredibly conservative OEM calibration pulling the reins for warranty's sake.
 

Mr Monte

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I don't understand why Ford would knowingly release "The most track capable Mustang" with an amazing track tuned engine mated the a transmission in base model that can't handle 20 mins on a track.


Page 25 of GT350 Owner's Manual
 

SVTDSM

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Well I spoke to Mike this morning. I expressed our concerns and emailed him a link to all the threads I feel Ford/Ford Performance needs to see. He said he will get this to the right people.
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