Levels Performance Intercooler Data

[turtleboy]

Levels is Bad ASS! Pull it outof the box and you will be in love. <3

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[TurboMetal]

Thanks for posting Juben, interesting to see how the IC works during a pull. I hate how my stock IC charge temps spike on a pull.

 

[Jasber]

Just ordered mine today as an early Fathers Day present to myself! Looking forward to an updated tune from Adam after install.

 

[JStang15]

Just ordered mine today as an early Fathers Day present to myself! Looking forward to an updated tune from Adam after install.

Nice! I just installed mine this past weekend and got my updated tune from Adam on Monday. Car definitely pulls a lot stronger now. You're gonna love it!

 

[apx632]

I've had my Level's IC on for about a month now. My daily drive now consists of 100 degree weather so my charge temps stay at about 115 plus. But the intercooler still performs well. I recommend to anyone looked to upgrade. I will say this, do not get the race version unless you plan to do a big turbo and go north of 600. The street unit works great with a lot of these turbo kits up to around 550-600hp.

 

[Juben]

Updates to the OP with more pics and info on the updated Street Core FMIC!

 

[Chef jpd]

is 150 degree charge air temp normal for highway cruising at 93 degree day? i have levels and once it got heat soakef from being parked it never cooled back down again

I have the car basically stock with a Cobb OTS stage 1-93
I am seeing charge air temps at around 115 on the highway at 90 degrees ambient.

The highest I've seen in standstill traffic was 130.

This is disgusting, since my 2013 Focus ST with a Levels intercooler never saw more than 10 degrees over ambient on the hardest pulls.

 

[Juben]

I have the car basically stock with a Cobb OTS stage 1-93
I am seeing charge air temps at around 115 on the highway at 90 degrees ambient.

The highest I've seen in standstill traffic was 130.

This is disgusting, since my 2013 Focus ST with a Levels intercooler never saw more than 10 degrees over ambient on the hardest pulls.

You just need the LP FMIC for the EBM too!

 

[TheLion]

Inter coolers require air flow to reach maximum efficiency. While idling in traffic the IC's only able to radiate heat unless the cooling fans for the radiator kick in. Remember also mustang EB is making quite a bit more power than the 2.0 EB in the ST...there's going to be more heat, especially with a tune. As long as your charge temps drop as soon as you start driving I don't see an issue.

Technically, as long as your charge temps don't reach 150F, you should be making full power as the PCM doesn't start to pull timing and throttle until charge temps reach 150F (which happens are a single gear WOT pull and the stock IC).

With the cobb stage 1 tune you may also be generating significantly more heat. Is your ST stock other than the IC?

 

[Juben]

Inter coolers require air flow to reach maximum efficiency. While idling in traffic the IC's only able to radiate heat unless the cooling fans for the radiator kick in. Remember also mustang EB is making quite a bit more power than the 2.0 EB in the ST...there's going to be more heat, especially with a tune. As long as your charge temps drop as soon as you start driving I don't see an issue.

Technically, as long as your charge temps don't reach 150F, you should be making full power as the PCM doesn't start to pull timing and throttle until charge temps reach 150F (which happens are a single gear WOT pull and the stock IC).

With the cobb stage 1 tune you may also be generating significantly more heat. Is your ST stock other than the IC?

Great! Now, you're gonna have people making posts about wiring up cooling fans on the front of their intercoolers! :lol:

 

[Chef jpd]

ST had CAI, Intercooler, Stage 2-93 custom tune, cold plugs and Remus Catback.

 

[TheLion]

ST had CAI, Intercooler, Stage 2-93 custom tune, cold plugs and Remus Catback.

Which version of the Levels do you have? 11", 14" with welded end tanks or 14" with cast end tanks? I'm wondering if it's environmental, tune related or possibly a workmanship issue with the IC.

Nick seems like a great guy and I'm sure he does his best, but hand made or machine made, no matter how hard you try, there will be defects. Might not even be his defect, he's using an off-the-shelf core he buys and then builds up around that core.

Based on Juben's results, 130F idling in traffic seems a bit high, but then again I think Juben is running a stock PCM firmware (aka no tune) unless I'm mistaken. The levels IC matched or beat the MMR IC, so I find it hard to believe it's a design issue, which points to workmanship or other factors that differ between your results and Juben's, again like a tune and other mods. 130-115 is only 15F. Ambient conditions aren't exact match either, plus the error in the sensors and different programmers reading and interpreting data. Seems like a reasonable difference.

Juben, can you tell us weather your running a PCM tune / any other mods? I personally plan on running just the IC, UPR Catch Can and Steeda 35lb Clutch Pedal Assist Spring until at least the bumper to bumper warranty is up and the engine is well broken in (insuring no infant mortality issues that might require significant warranty service).

BTW, I figured I'd pass this along, but the thread detailing the interview from the Ford Global engineer who was on the 2.3L development project suggested the stock piston heads (as they aren't forged) can safely take about 360HP (not sure if that was with respect to at the crank or at the wheels). For those running a tune, just be aware you may be pushing them beyond their sustainable limits if you're going well above that. From what I've seen most canned tunes seem to net around 50~75hp and around 60~90 ft-lbs torque.

I guess we'll see long term reliablity as the miles pile up. On the bright side, there are a couple of Taurus SHO's with around 100k that have been running similar tunes with mods and they are still going strong...I can't imagine the 3.7L EB piston heads being radically different in terms of their limits and overall shape / design.

 

[Juben]

My car has been tuned since 1k miles. It's at almost 50k now (I drive a lot). I ordered my intercooler the day after I picked it up. I'm also running a catch can and colder plugs as well.

I'll have to be brief because time is limited but 130°+ charge air temps (CATs) in traffic is completely normal. It stays 100° here throughout most of the day everyday, and with higher ambient temps, it's normal. As soon as I start moving at a decent rate of speed though, the CATs will plummet and return to the normal range.

In comparing intercoolers between different cars in different environments, I don't feel we could accurately correlate the data due to many variables, both accounted for and unaccounted for. The best testing is done on the same car under the same conditions.

I wish you (TheLion) had an Accessport. We could log some parameters on the stock unit to compare to the Levels to get some data, like pressure drop. I neglected to do so when I upgraded mine because I got so giddy about getting it installed and wish I could have recorded some pulls on both.

 

[TheLion]

My car has been tuned since 1k miles. It's at almost 50k now (I drive a lot). I ordered my intercooler the day after I picked it up. I'm also running a catch can and colder plugs as well.

I'll have to be brief because time is limited but 130°+ charge air temps (CATs) in traffic is completely normal. It stays 100° here throughout most of the day everyday, and with higher ambient temps, it's normal. As soon as I start moving at a decent rate of speed though, the CATs will plummet and return to the normal range.

In comparing intercoolers between different cars in different environments, I don't feel we could accurately correlate the data due to many variables, both accounted for and unaccounted for. The best testing is done on the same car under the same conditions.

I wish you (TheLion) had an Accessport. We could log some parameters on the stock unit to compare to the Levels to get some data, like pressure drop. I neglected to do so when I upgraded mine because I got so giddy about getting it installed and wish I could have recorded some pulls on both.

I wonder if a Actron code reader will give me enough to see the outlet temps. I used it on my 07 focus to monitor engine parameters while driving when I was trouble shooting a bad IAT sensor when I first bought the car. I could watch Fuel/Air, temp, timing, throttle, Bank 1 / 2 O2 etc...my car is still bone stock until Nick ships out my Levels Street IC. I'll have to take a look tonight and see if I can at least see the outlet temp on the Actron (although it's doubtful as it's 4-5 years old, so I'm not sure how many turbo engines it would read at the time of it's mfg. that it could get that data from). I know OBDII is a standard, so if it was available on say Audi's, VW's or other common turbo engines via the OBDII, it might work (although I won't have any logs, I can at least watch it in real time and gain an idea).

I'm in Ohio, so temps here in summer range between mid 80's to high 90's, not too far off from Florida temps some are reporting. But regardless, we DO KNOW the stock IC will heat soak after a single gear pull, it's very well documented by multiple reputable sources (3 of them I listed, ACT, FFTec and VM / Levels). It's also document to a lesser degree by instrumented testing in Car and Driver, Motor Trend and other magazines noting the EB's getting slower and having inconsistent power in 1-2 but more frequently in 2-3 pulls, which is what I noted the first time I did a 1,2,3 gear pull on a back stretch.

As far as tunes go, I am waiting for the Ford Racing ProCal tune. I suppose I could buy the ProCal now and then download the tune once it comes out. Then at least I can log all the parameters of the car as it is and compare them afterwords, it would be especially interesting to see the IC outlet temps...hummm

 

[Juben]

You should be able to log both Inlet Air Temp (IAT1) at the filter and Charge Air Temps (IAT2) going into the throttle body with your Actron. In most cases, if you can monitor IAT1, then you can also monitor IAT2.

There's also the Bluetooth ELM327 modules with which you can monitor loads of PIDs with apps like Torque from the Google Play Store. I had an ELM module and it worked pretty well. You could definitely monitor IAT/CAT with it.

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