Let's talk about methanol

[Thatguy]

Good info! Besides wondering about actual performance gains, my only other question is the best place to mount everything. There are pictures in this thread that show the tank and pump mounted in the trunk and pics that show it in the engine compartment. All are clean installs. I'm leaning towards mounting it up front so I won't have to run lines and wires to the back and not give up any trunk space.

btw- That vent mounted gauge bracket is slick!

This got my attention -

70/30 is not flammable and that is why we run it with water. Some customers run 100% meth, which in my opinion is not safe for the person itself because of it being flammable and methanol flames are clear and cannot be seen.

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[DavidEcobeast]

My thoughts with everything in the trunk is that everything is inspectable and serviceable. Also, the pump is away from the heat and elements. Keep in mind, that my bracket is temporary. I am going to re work it and add the proper connections. I do like like the under hood installs though.
Also, the lines and wires run through the interior alongside the rear seat panel and door seal plates and up through the kick panel. Therefore, the wiring and tubing are pretty protected. If I was to relocate under the hood, than I would definitely go with braided hoses and tap I to the stock resivior. No chance in running pure Meth though because I like using my windshield washer for cleaning my windows.
Again, everything in the rear is inspectable and safe. The container is cool to touch in the the summer heat.
Venting shouldn't be an issue in a cool trunk. I definitely don't want to vent methonal under a hot engine bay.

Idk.. to each of these own. Trust me... injection works!

 

[Thatguy]

I found a source for meth a few miles from me. $8 per gallon if it buy it from them. I read it should be much cheaper if I buy a drum. I have CV charge pipes so I can plumb into the cold side. Besides the kit, is there anything else needed for the install?

 

[DavidEcobeast]

Relay
30 amp fuse (battery to relay)
Solenoid
Filter
x 3 2 pin male/female connectors
Butt conenectors/eyelet connections (16-18 gauge)
Heat shrink

 

[kent0464]

Here’s a little back ground-Devil’s own, Snow and AEM are all relative newcomers to water/meth injection, WW2 fighters used a water injection system and water inject for cars gained popularity through Aquamist as the company that started the WI craze around the world, when WRC cars started using Aquamist systems.
Guys please get your info directly from the manufacturers web sites, blogs and forums, most other sites are full of misinformation (hotrod is notorious) so as not to damage your motors.
I’ve been using Water/meth injection for over 30 years and it is a great power adder when properly sized to your motor.
For the arguments above on what mix to run, let me say that the cooling potential of water is the key, nothing else even comes close, meth is a cool burning fuel source....there’s lots of theory, math, flame front speed, etc that you can read elsewhere. A 50/50 mix has been the best for me in several different cars, testing has shown 80/20 meth/water is the max for most motors. 100% meth removes the awesome cooling potential of water, but still provides some cooling as well as a high octane fuel source.
Can you tune to maximize benefits? Yes, but if there’s an issue with delivery or you simply run dry, then there goes the motor. If you tune for it run a safety/ warning system.
Can you you WI without tuning and still benefit? Yes, most ECU’s after 2000 or so will pull/add timing/fuel as needed when injection starts, but you won’t get as much benefit as tuning for it, however if there a delivery issue you most likely will not loose the motor..

 

[Thatguy]

One of my concerns is losing the engine if there is a delivery issue. This started off as I can use it for cooling and gain some extra horsepower from meth (50/50) but it's easy to get caught up in the quest for more power and lower ETs.

Ryan @ PD estimates my car to be at about 360HP. Maybe a little more now with the tune he did for the cooler weather. 400hp is supposed to be the safe limit for the block. Depending on the tune and percentage of methanol, it will probably be getting close to that.

 

[DavidEcobeast]

One of my concerns is losing the engine if there is a delivery issue. This started off as I can use it for cooling and gain some extra horsepower from meth (50/50) but it's easy to get caught up in the quest for more power and lower ETs.

Ryan @ PD estimates my car to be at about 360HP. Maybe a little more now with the tune he did for the cooler weather. 400hp is supposed to be the safe limit for the block. Depending on the tune and percentage of methanol, it will probably be getting close to that.

What mods do you have? 400-420... is good. I believe Adam has made 480 or so. 400 is general.
Methonal will cool, and fuel, and make the engine more consistent. I myself am concerned about safety. What if a component fails?? General rule, is to replace or rebuild the pump if running stright Methanol every 2 to 3 years, and to not let the Methanol sit in the lines and pump for extended periods of time. This means to prime the pump occasionally or step on it to activate the pump. I guess Methanol will leave awhite powdery substance when sitting for a month or two.
I have been following the Buick Grand Nationals forms about methanol and have read a lot of good stuff about pure Methonal. There engines run best with it injected pure.

 

[Thatguy]

What mods do you have? 400-420... is good. I believe Adam has made 480 or so. 400 is general.
Methonal will cool, and fuel, and make the engine more consistent. I myself am concerned about safety. What if a component fails?? General rule, is to replace or rebuild the pump if running stright Methanol every 2 to 3 years, and to not let the Methanol sit in the lines and pump for extended periods of time. This means to prime the pump occasionally or step on it to activate the pump. I guess Methanol will leave awhite powdery substance when sitting for a month or two.
I have been following the Buick Grand Nationals forms about methanol and have read a lot of good stuff about pure Methonal. There engines run best with it injected pure.

The car is FBO and NX2. My main priority when tuning was reliability. I'll give up some hp to give the engine a better chance to be around for many miles. I really like how it performs now but think I can safely get more out of it with methanol. Plus do it consistently during the Summer.

 

[DavidEcobeast]

The car is FBO and NX2. My main priority when tuning was reliability. I'll give up some hp to give the engine a better chance to be around for many miles. I really like how it performs now but think I can safely get more out of it with methanol. Plus do it consistently during the Summer.

We are the same.

Nx2
Map Full catless exhaust
Airaid intake tube (stock box)
CP-E charge pipes
Speed Factory IC

I want 400-420. I just got the green light from Ryan to go FULL Meth. I will be sending logs next week if weather permits.
Ryan, is staying firm with stright methanol.

 

[Deleted member]

The car is FBO and NX2. My main priority when tuning was reliability. I'll give up some hp to give the engine a better chance to be around for many miles. I really like how it performs now but think I can safely get more out of it with methanol. Plus do it consistently during the Summer.

Make sure you get a check valve

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/push-to-connect/64-check-valve.html

This will keep meth lines from being pressurized, lets meth flow into motor, and wont let the motor suck in meth under vacuum.

 

[BlackandBlue]

Here’s a little back ground-Devil’s own, Snow and AEM are all relative newcomers to water/meth injection, WW2 fighters used a water injection system and water inject for cars gained popularity through Aquamist as the company that started the WI craze around the world, when WRC cars started using Aquamist systems.
Guys please get your info directly from the manufacturers web sites, blogs and forums, most other sites are full of misinformation (hotrod is notorious) so as not to damage your motors.
I’ve been using Water/meth injection for over 30 years and it is a great power adder when properly sized to your motor.
For the arguments above on what mix to run, let me say that the cooling potential of water is the key, nothing else even comes close, meth is a cool burning fuel source....there’s lots of theory, math, flame front speed, etc that you can read elsewhere. A 50/50 mix has been the best for me in several different cars, testing has shown 80/20 meth/water is the max for most motors. 100% meth removes the awesome cooling potential of water, but still provides some cooling as well as a high octane fuel source.
Can you tune to maximize benefits? Yes, but if there’s an issue with delivery or you simply run dry, then there goes the motor. If you tune for it run a safety/ warning system.
Can you you WI without tuning and still benefit? Yes, most ECU’s after 2000 or so will pull/add timing/fuel as needed when injection starts, but you won’t get as much benefit as tuning for it, however if there a delivery issue you most likely will not loose the motor..

Something tells me your warning will go unheeded. I have also used methanol for years. I have never had a system that worked reliably its whole usable life. They all had their own little issues that needed working on whether it was day one or a year down the road. For some reason everyone of them stopped working.

The systems are a great safety net. They work great with a turn it up tune but having it on an everyday driver is in my opinion going to cause heartache. Using it as a fuel in a DD is downright crazy in my opinion.

If you are using this system to protect against bad gas and add extra timing when temps would be high, it’s great. If your using it at the track to go all out it’s also great. If you drive around all the time with a tank of methanol and expect if to work forever, you will be disappointed.

 

[kent0464]

Something tells me your warning will go unheeded. I have also used methanol for years. I have never had a system that worked reliably its whole usable life. They all had their own little issues that needed working on whether it was day one or a year down the road. For some reason everyone of them stopped working.

The systems

Something tells me your warning will go unheeded. I have also used methanol for years. I have never had a system that worked reliably its whole usable life. They all had their own little issues that needed working on whether it was day one or a year down the road. For some reason everyone of them stopped working.

The systems are a great safety net. They work great with a turn it up tune but having it on an everyday driver is in my opinion going to cause heartache. Using it as a fuel in a DD is downright crazy in my opinion.

If you are using this system to protect against bad gas and add extra timing when temps would be high, it’s great. If your using it at the track to go all out it’s also great. If you drive around all the time with a tank of methanol and expect if to work forever, you will be disappointed.

All I can do is try to educate.....Whether they listen or research is up to them.

 

[Thatguy]

Something tells me your warning will go unheeded. I have also used methanol for years. I have never had a system that worked reliably its whole usable life. They all had their own little issues that needed working on whether it was day one or a year down the road. For some reason everyone of them stopped working.

The systems are a great safety net. They work great with a turn it up tune but having it on an everyday driver is in my opinion going to cause heartache. Using it as a fuel in a DD is downright crazy in my opinion.

If you are using this system to protect against bad gas and add extra timing when temps would be high, it’s great. If your using it at the track to go all out it’s also great. If you drive around all the time with a tank of methanol and expect if to work forever, you will be disappointed.

Mine isn't a daily driver but it gets a lot more use after the roads are clean in the Spring until late Fall/early Winter. Pretty much until the snow flies. I've driven it over 600 miles some weeks. I tend to do a lot of research before I make an important purchase. This is one of those mods that can cost me thousands of dollars if it doesn't work right. Reliability of the car and system is the most important.

With that said... what do you think?

 

[BlackandBlue]

All I can do is try to educate.....Whether they listen or research is up to them.

Your insight is greatly appreciated by me.

Mine isn't a daily driver but it gets a lot more use after the roads are clean in the Spring until late Fall/early Winter. Pretty much until the snow flies. I've driven it over 600 miles some weeks. I tend to do a lot of research before I make an important purchase. This is one of those mods that can cost me thousands of dollars if it doesn't work right. Reliability of the car and system is the most important.

With that said... what do you think?

If your motor won’t blow up without it you are good. A little extra timing and lower IATs is good.

If you motor needs it to go fast you
most likely will be sweeping up parts if you use it long enough.

There are some good ideas about cutting power in the case of a problem. The problem is all it takes is one piston stroke to blow an engine. Stray metal burr or hose fragment in the nozzle and boom.

My view is tanted though as I have had problems with the older systems. I don’t know a lot about the new systems.

 

[Thatguy]

We are the same.

Nx2
Map Full catless exhaust
Airaid intake tube (stock box)
CP-E charge pipes
Speed Factory IC

I want 400-420. I just got the green light from Ryan to go FULL Meth. I will be sending logs next week if weather permits.
Ryan, is staying firm with stright methanol.

Let us know how it goes. Which nozzle are you using? I looked at their chart. Based on 500 flywheel hp (425 rear wheel) with 25lbs boost, it recommends #6. But, there is a note that says to reduce the quantity slightly if using an intercooler. It's kind of on the edge of 5 and 6.

Please correct me if I'm wrong with this (learning about meth), from some posts I've read, running a 50/50 mixture would allow for tuning equal to running 100 octane. More meth would equal a higher octane tune.

When it comes to tuning the delivery curve with for the Stage 2 kit, can Ryan make suggestions based on his experience with this? I've been doing research online but haven't talked to him yet. Waiting until I have a kit coming my way if I order it.

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