It’s coming... 3 States have now banned future combustion engine car sales

[sk47]

Why EVs Might Never Reach"Price Parity" With Conventional Cars (msn.com)
Hello; This article ought to be required reading for all those in favor of and pushing battery vehicles onto the rest of us.

That said at some point, to be fair, we ought to, discuss some of the motivations behind the zeal for battery vehicles. Likely number one is some sense of saving the planet. Some number of specific topics can be bundled under that umbrella. I can and will, if required, expound on what I perceive to be the truths and false hoods surrounding those global environmental topics. There is one particular culprit at the bottom of most, if not all, our global environmental worries. Too many people. Someone has already mentioned this several posts back if memory serves.

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[TexasMetallic5.0]

I'm just waiting for Texas to secede.

 

[Kong76]

Our wildfires last year here in Ca set us back 40 years in carbon pollution. Going electric won't do diddly squat.

 

[DougS550]

People here are missing the point, these states are behind the times. This is not political, it’s market driven. The rest of the world is moving to EVs. The US is slow to adopt these mandates. Only Ford and GM are American. Meanwhile the EU is moving to 30 million EVs by 2030 (source Reuters) with climate neutrality by 2050. China also is moving to a more ambitious EV conversion. China imposed a mandate on automakers requiring that electric vehicles (EVs) make up 40% of all sales by 2030. So you have the largest car market, China and the largest auto manufacturing consortiums based in the EU, who do you think is really driving the end of ICE? EU and China will lead in the manufacturing, technology, and infrastructure required to do this. They will have EV manufacturing economies of scale. It’s an evolution, like the end of coal powering locomotives. We can resist and cede our technology leadership as we have limited ownership of our auto manufacturing or we can get on board. Sell your Exxon-Mobil stock, EVs are coming. They will be charged with your home solar panels or windmill as the power generation market will also reduce to peaker plants. It’s not political, it’s market driven by countries outside of the US. Renault-Nissan, Honda, FCA, VW, BMW, Daimler, & Hyundai know where their growth market is... China. China with the EU car market will dictate what is available not CA, NJ, and MA.

Hi. Sadly, Elections do have consequences. To Me, It is mostly Political and heavily influenced by the people who will rack in billions off of our US Tax payer Money and mostly from other countries such as Europe. The world has used the US as a piggy bank for a long time, we are quickly becoming an insolvent 2nd-3rd world country due to this uncontrolled spending which a high percentage seems to go to other countries other than the US. As far as the Ion Batteries, they are dangerously hazardous to dispose of and really in the scheme of things related to technology, they are not very efficient when you Cost of continuously charging the batteries each time you want to drive some where?, not for me. Some day they will transfer to a more safe and efficient propulsion technology which will move us safety into the future, batteries are very inefficient and hazardous. All the wind mills and solar panels they keep cluttering up our beautiful country land, inefficient, and extremely hazardous and extremely costly to dispose of when they are replace. This is all about the money other wise we would have all Highly efficient and now very safe Nuclear plants running our power grids. And yes, a nuclear propulsion engine for transportation, it can be done safety, but that's not where the money making is at. Its all about the Money and the people who will benefit from it. Why do you think every billionaire like John Kerry, Bezos, Zuckerberg etc stand in front of the podium and telling every else they need to switch to electric cars, stop traveling so much, be a vegan and stop eating meat like beef, live in smaller so we can eliminate the dreaded and dangerous Cow farts/fluctuations gases from destroying our ozone ETC. Then, 20 minutes after giving an environmental speech telling the average people what we shouldn't be doing, they are chauffeured in a 8 MPG limousine to their very polluting, ozone killer, G6 aircraft flying back to their 50,000 SF mansion. Yep, those are the people I will be taking advice from. We have to do things smarter, not dumber to progress. IMHO

 

[sk47]

Electric cars will speed up depreciation of everything GM owns (msn.com)

Hello; The linked article sort of tied things together for me. I had not thought it thru. My thinking was somehow the big auto companies would continue with the ICE along side of the electric. With the ICE portion pretty much remaining as is and being adjusted to match demand. Apparently my lack of understanding is rooted in mot knowing how big scale decisions and changes are made.
The link explains things in a way that, unfortunately from my point of view, makes sense. I will be thinking about this for some time as I have not imagined all the consequences. An early impression is this move (forcing us into electric cars) is more of a done deal than I had imagined.

Another thought is there soon could be less and less new improvements/changes to the ICE. I had imagined a sort of competition between tech improvements for the ICE and the battery vehicles. The link article almost reads like the towel is being thrown in already. That the plan is to eek out the value of existing ICE equipment while tapering down production of ICE as the electric is being ramped up. Then at some points depreciate the ICE equipment and take the tax write offs.

Too many unknowns for my being able to figure things. Could be a sweet spot for some capable aftermarket company to step into the gap which apparently will be left during the transition.

 

[nrc]

They're being forced to manufacture an increasing percentage of their vehicles with an expensive new technology. People may or may not be interested in buying that percentage of those vehicles but they have to find a way to make it work.

If there have to be cuts to fund that expensive new technology, it's going to come from the ICE side of things because they can't afford to be uncompetitive on the products they're being forced to sell.

Essentially the government is forcing manufacturers to go short on ICE vehicles. If consumers decide to buy and hold ICE they'll be in trouble.

 

[sk47]

Essentially the government is forcing manufacturers to go short on ICE vehicles. If consumers decide to buy and hold ICE they'll be in trouble.

Essentially the government is forcing ____________to _________on __________. It appears we will be able to fill in the blanks for a number of things.

"If consumers decide to buy and hold ICE they'll be in trouble."
Hello; I fear they have a tactic to deal with this in mind. They can and likely will try to force the cost of fuel out of reach for many. The logic will be improbably faulty as the cost of the battery vehicles will also likely continue to be out of reach for many barring some technological breakthrough which brings the battery costs way down.
What needs to be kept in mind is how very serious some of the true believers are about this. They do truly believe they are fighting to save the planet and now in some places have some power to enforce some of the notions.

 

[Elvis67]

I live in California..fuck electric cars !! I'll be a Gas huffer till i die!! ..electric cars a Cash grab$ hope all the liberal tranny bitches chock on e85 flex fuel while they are confused Which bathroom to use.

 

[nrc]

Essentially the government is forcing ____________to _________on __________. It appears we will be able to fill in the blanks for a number of things.

"If consumers decide to buy and hold ICE they'll be in trouble."
Hello; I fear they have a tactic to deal with this in mind. They can and likely will try to force the cost of fuel out of reach for many. The logic will be improbably faulty as the cost of the battery vehicles will also likely continue to be out of reach for many barring some technological breakthrough which brings the battery costs way down.
What needs to be kept in mind is how very serious some of the true believers are about this. They do truly believe they are fighting to save the planet and now in some places have some power to enforce some of the notions.

Absolutely. These zealots aren't going to brook any disruption to their plans. The problem is that that they prefer to work the levers in the background and let the public think that it's just something that people want. As soon as they overtly take action that will cost people money or eliminate their choices there will be electoral consequences.

 

[shogun32]

If consumers decide to buy and hold ICE they'll be in trouble.

but GT350 owners will get their money back and can strut like the Porsche guys do. I kid, I kid.

 

[shogun32]

I'll be a Gas huffer till i die!!

that can be arranged. Just sayin'

 

[sk47]

Absolutely. These zealots aren't going to brook any disruption to their plans. The problem is that that they prefer to work the levers in the background and let the public think that it's just something that people want. As soon as they overtly take action that will cost people money or eliminate their choices there will be electoral consequences.

Hello; I have already heard TV talking heads saying things like over 70% of the people "WANT" the electric cars. I guess the media will be on board with the apparent deception.

 

[shogun32]

I have already heard TV talking heads saying things like over 70% of the people "WANT" the electric cars.

it's called astroturf. I wouldn't be surprised if it's predicated on a dishonest survey with questions like "if you could save the planet by buying an electric car, would you?"

Electric cars are "great" in the abstract and I would guess a good 60-70% of current ICE owners could easily switch over and it would suit their requirements and can live with the tradeoffs. That of course ignores the whole charging and weather-induced complications. We'll just hand-wave the hard physics problems away... Who has time for such things.

If the EV manufacturers bring a product the consumer wants, they'll buy it. I very much doubt families sit around the dining room table debating ICE vs EV. If it looks good, carries what they need in the desired level of comfort and is affordable, they'll buy it. An at-home charger that can top off the tank enough for the next day's activities will suffice. And if you never have to take it to the dealer for oil and messy repairs so much the better.

But be forced to buy an EV because the gov't said so, overtly or thru "gun to your head" in the form of fuel taxes and registration penalties, is not in compliance with the terms of the social contract the citizenry agreed to. If the gov't wants to take the line "ICE == harm" then the gov't has to show actual evidence of harm and hope to peaceably make their argument. They don't have the evidence for starters and so far the "convincing" they're trying to do includes beating people over the head.

 

[Troutwrangler]

Our wildfires last year here in Ca set us back 40 years in carbon pollution. Going electric won't do diddly squat.

Spot on....
Forest mismanagement is causing more pollution than anything we are doing with our cars.

 

[sk47]

it's called astroturf. I wouldn't be surprised if it's predicated on a dishonest survey with questions like "if you could save the planet by buying an electric car, would you?"

Electric cars are "great" in the abstract and I would guess a good 60-70% of current ICE owners could easily switch over and it would suit their requirements and can live with the tradeoffs. That of course ignores the whole charging and weather-induced complications. We'll just hand-wave the hard physics problems away... Who has time for such things.

If the EV manufacturers bring a product the consumer wants, they'll buy it. I very much doubt families sit around the dining room table debating ICE vs EV. If it looks good, carries what they need in the desired level of comfort and is affordable, they'll buy it. An at-home charger that can top off the tank enough for the next day's activities will suffice. And if you never have to take it to the dealer for oil and messy repairs so much the better.

But be forced to buy an EV because the gov't said so, overtly or thru "gun to your head" in the form of fuel taxes and registration penalties, is not in compliance with the terms of the social contract the citizenry agreed to. If the gov't wants to take the line "ICE == harm" then the gov't has to show actual evidence of harm and hope to peaceably make their argument. They don't have the evidence for starters and so far the "convincing" they're trying to do includes beating people over the head.

Hello; Excellent post. I did not know the term "astroturf" for such surveys. I have had a few such questions during election cycles. Even argued with one over the sentence structure of the questions.

Hello; Yes I agree that for much of my needs I could get by with an electric vehicle. I rarely go more than 30 miles for the basic stuff of life. I do live in a rural area so from time to time do travel as much as 250 to 300 miles in a day. Occasionally I will need to go further.

Hello; I watch TV programs about automobiles. The last year there has been mainly re-runs of a show called TECH GARAGE on during the afternoons weekdays. One one show they had a Nissan Leaf in the shop. Seems it has a coolant system with antifreeze and the car had a problem with that. Same sort of antifreeze as in a ICE vehicle. I do not recall exactly what needed to be cooled. Maybe the battery pack needs to be cooled when charging?

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