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It’s coming... 3 States have now banned future combustion engine car sales

sk47

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You are being forced to spend money on something meaningless to transfer your money to the huge corporations that are controlling the world.
Hello; A good point. I also think the multi national corporations drive much of the agendas.
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sk47

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I won’t ask what your definition of ‘patriot’ is.
Hello; I understood what he/she is driving at. A concept I would love to expand about but will not in the open forum. Send me a PM and we can have a talk.
50% of the electorate smells a very big rat. :)
Hello; Yes this is one of the big issues. Another topic I fear is not good on the open forum, but I also get it.
It's like the change from 8 tracks to cassettes to CDs to computer memory and now to not owning the music but rather renting it. Yes, some of those were real upgrades, so it's not the perfect example, but it gives you the idea of what they are doing in my opinion.
Hello; For me the evolution of car based music has stopped at the CD. I got my license in 1963 with only AM radio. Had a very brief fling with 8 track. The cassette tape took a while to become decent. I eventually wound up with a decent double cassette recorder which had the capacity to record on the higher end tapes. Pulled a lot of tracks off of vinyl for a lot of years. With good equipment I could reduce much of the noise and get decent bass.

Some of the very early CD's were not super good. After a time the codes got worked out in the programing and they are very good. My brother bought one of the very early add on CD players which skipped. After a bit they played fine and did not skip any more.

I moved to the CD's and gave away all my vinyl. Started ripping the factory CD's onto a computer in the WMA format. I would burn tunes onto a blank CD's to use in a vehicle. Had around six hundred CD's ripped to a computer by the time cars started not having a CD any more, around 2017 I think.
So I put some tunes onto a memory stick (USB sort) and carried this when car shopping. Turned out some makes would not play WMA format, only MP3. Ford Mustang will play both.

I have somewhere around 1000+ factory CD's by now. I go the a place called McKays in Knoxville TN on Papermill Drive. They buy and sell used CD's, books, DVD movies, electronic equipment, leggo blocks and in the last year or two many thousands of old vinyl. I am trying to buy the CD's I hope to keep while they are still available.
 

shogun32

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I am trying to buy the CD's I hope to keep while they are still available.
the problem is going to be finding a player. Old capstan-driven reel to reel or tape decks are easy to preserve/refurbish. Even floppy drives. CD/DVD not so much.
 

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Hello; I understood what he/she is driving at. A concept I would love to expand about but will not in the open forum. Send me a PM and we can have a talk.

Hello; Yes this is one of the big issues. Another topic I fear is not good on the open forum, but I also get it.

Hello; For me the evolution of car based music has stopped at the CD. I got my license in 1963 with only AM radio. Had a very brief fling with 8 track. The cassette tape took a while to become decent. I eventually wound up with a decent double cassette recorder which had the capacity to record on the higher end tapes. Pulled a lot of tracks off of vinyl for a lot of years. With good equipment I could reduce much of the noise and get decent bass.

Some of the very early CD's were not super good. After a time the codes got worked out in the programing and they are very good. My brother bought one of the very early add on CD players which skipped. After a bit they played fine and did not skip any more.

I moved to the CD's and gave away all my vinyl. Started ripping the factory CD's onto a computer in the WMA format. I would burn tunes onto a blank CD's to use in a vehicle. Had around six hundred CD's ripped to a computer by the time cars started not having a CD any more, around 2017 I think.
So I put some tunes onto a memory stick (USB sort) and carried this when car shopping. Turned out some makes would not play WMA format, only MP3. Ford Mustang will play both.

I have somewhere around 1000+ factory CD's by now. I go the a place called McKays in Knoxville TN on Papermill Drive. They buy and sell used CD's, books, DVD movies, electronic equipment, leggo blocks and in the last year or two many thousands of old vinyl. I am trying to buy the CD's I hope to keep while they are still available.
I still buy some CDs as well. I think I'm a little younger than you but not a lot. Never owned an 8 track and only a couple records. I mostly do what you do with the CDs as well. With a CD you buy the rights to the music so you can continue making infinite copies as long as they are for your personal use only. If you buy a download only song, then after a few copies your rights are gone and you have to buy that song again.
 

Hack

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the problem is going to be finding a player. Old capstan-driven reel to reel or tape decks are easy to preserve/refurbish. Even floppy drives. CD/DVD not so much.
Hopefully there's enough demand for the CD/DVD format that someone will continue making players. Heck, they still make record players.
 

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Idaho2018GTPremium

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I don't get this whole electrification of all transportation. It's like all these people think electricity is free, comes out of thin air and it's creation has 0 pollution. Until we can create electricity safely, cleanly and efficiently, this will all just be a transition to a different type of pollution. Instead of it coming of out the tailpipes, the same pollution is going to come out of dirty power plants, dirty mines and dirty battery plants.

My bet is that in 20-30 years there will be a whole slew of new environmentalists out there bitching about how dirty and dangerous (in the case of nuclear) the electricity and batteries are.
This is partly true. In places where coal is the dominant power producer, EVs payback to the environment takes a very long time at best, and at worst never pays back when accounting for battery production, mining, etc. In places with hydro power the electric vehicles are cleaner and payback compared to IC engines much quicker, breaking even after less than 2 years.

That said, I don't agree with government forcing EVs on us, considering modern IC engines are so clean compared to their predecessors. Hybrids like the Pruis and others are a good compromise, IMO, for those that want better efficiency. I don't have anything against EVs, per se, but prefer good old modern gasoline V8 engines.
 

sk47

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I still buy some CDs as well. I think I'm a little younger than you but not a lot. Never owned an 8 track and only a couple records. I mostly do what you do with the CDs as well. With a CD you buy the rights to the music so you can continue making infinite copies as long as they are for your personal use only. If you buy a download only song, then after a few copies your rights are gone and you have to buy that song again.
Hello; Thanks for the information. I have not yet tried to buy rights nor to download music. To me owning the hard copy version is what I want. If I physically own a CD then it is mine unless lost or damaged. The rules on the internet change too often.
 

19GT350R

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My paranoia and cynicism says that once ICEs are outlawed they will start saying that electric is bad too and go on to the next thing. The idea is to suck money and freedom away from the people.

It's like the change from 8 tracks to cassettes to CDs to computer memory and now to not owning the music but rather renting it. Yes, some of those were real upgrades, so it's not the perfect example, but it gives you the idea of what they are doing in my opinion.

You are being forced to spend money on something meaningless to transfer your money to the huge corporations that are controlling the world.

It has nothing to do with environmentalism. It's just big industry and corrupt politicians in action.
Nailed it.
 

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People here are missing the point, these states are behind the times. This is not political, it’s market driven. The rest of the world is moving to EVs. The US is slow to adopt these mandates.
Calling something "market driven" and in the same paragraph noting that it's actually driven by "mandates."
 

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nrc

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My paranoia and cynicism says that once ICEs are outlawed they will start saying that electric is bad too and go on to the next thing. The idea is to suck money and freedom away from the people.
Exactly correct. "You won't own anything and you'll like it."

But once they've driven the poors out of the personal transportation market by making it too expensive and impractical, the next focus is control, not energy source. People can't be trusted to drive. They waste energy, go where they want, and make a mess out of all our plans.
 

sk47

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Exactly correct. "You won't own anything and you'll like it."

But once they've driven the poors out of the personal transportation market by making it too expensive and impractical, the next focus is control, not energy source. People can't be trusted to drive. They waste energy, go where they want, and make a mess out of all our plans.
Hello; I may have already suggested it, but will again. There is a book titled "Our Dogs Did Not Bark". It is fiction but I feel you may find it a worth while read.
 

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you die. from the lack of plastics. Sure fuel matters to gear heads, but look at food prep and medical care. That industry runs on crude. There is zero evidence we're in danger of running out of oil. Cheap to extract oil, maybe.

What's hilarious about these dumb-ass state-level pronouncements written by ignoramuses is what do they expect will be done with all the gasoline that results from cracking? To get your plastics, your diesel (transport, farming), naphtha, and many other compounds you inevitably end up with gasoline coming out of the pipe. I can't wait for 10cent/gallon gasoline, you?
There was a "think tank" piece not long ago that proposed that accelerating adoption of electric vehicles was going cause an oil industry collapse that would leave millions of ICE vehicles that owners couldn't get rid of. I was hoping to pick up a GT350 when that hits.

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This stuff was obviously written by people who never get outside of major metropolitan areas. https://www.rethinkx.com/transportation
 

sk47

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Hello; Been thinking about the Keystone pipeline. Now that it's construction is stopped there will be consequences. So far the discussion I hear most is about the loss of active jobs. Something like 1100 jobs from the stoppage. That job loss is a big deal for those who lose them to be sure, but beyond job loss what else is implied.
For one this work stoppage is an indicator of how serious the attacks on the fuel for the ICE will be. Not real clear what other coming attacks will be but I figure fracking will be on the table. My guess being if fracking is somehow stopped as a recovery method then the volume of oil and natural gas produced will fall back the levels of a couple of decades ago.
So my guess is the industry had begun to count on crude from Canada thru the pipeline to the USA in the near future. Best I can recall the crude is being shipped by train cars currently. That sort of works but is nowhere near as efficient as a pipeline.
Not sure of the reasons behind the rise in fuel prices lately, but can say they have been going up steadily for several weeks now where I live. Maybe 35 cents per gallon so far. I fully expect higher fuel prices to continue as time goes by.

Guess I could throw in comments about how now there will be more and more programs giving battery run vehicles an unfair advantage. By unfair I mean programs that make buying one less costly than the price would be in a head to head competition with ICE vehicles. I will save such comments for later.

What I hope to do is get comments from any following this thread who are in favor of things such as the stopping of the pipeline, stopping fracking and giving financial incentives for the purchase of electric vehicles. Perhaps two sorts of comments. One sort being comments about why you favor such things.
Another sorts of comments about this question. I figure these new directions in energy policy will increase the cost of living for pretty much all of us. Higher fuel costs always result is higher costs for anything being shipped including food. We could soon be back to the $4 to $5 per gallon fuel costs and perhaps even higher if new federal fuel taxes are imposed.
The question. When you supported these changes in energy policies, did you plan on and expect the cost of living to be affected ?
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