Is Ford lacking on performance?

[martinjlm]

[MENTION=33751]martinjlm[/MENTION] Just out of curiousity, do you have a non-disclosure agreement with GM regarding the inside information you may know about future products? How long is something like that in effect for?

Legally, no. Morally, yes. Since I spent so many years in Powertrain Product Planning and led the Powertrain Competitor Intel team, I know the value of keeping secrets secret. I'm sure there are some things that I have info on that I could get sued for if I were to broadcast it, but there is no likelihood of me doing that. Within the next year or two most of what I know will become public knowledge or will have changed.

FWIW - I have no hatred for Ford and have a sincere appreciation for Mustangs, or I wouldn't spend time on this board. My step-father retired from a Ford plant and my wife spent 11 years at Ford HQ before she left to run her own business.

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[zero_chance]

Legally, no. Morally, yes. Since I spent so many years in Powertrain Product Planning and led the Powertrain Competitor Intel team, I know the value of keeping secrets secret. I'm sure there are some things that I have info on that I could get sued for if I were to broadcast it, but there is no likelihood of me doing that. Within the next year or two most of what I know will become public knowledge or will have changed.

FWIW - I have no hatred for Ford and have a sincere appreciation for Mustangs, or I wouldn't spend time on this board. My step-father retired from a Ford plant and my wife spent 11 years at Ford HQ before she left to run her own business.

At least you have an open mind, I was always curious when I saw people from different manufacturers on a forum, especially the competition.

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

The previous poster said “switching to DOHC”. It’s not a “switch” it’s an “add” and it is not the only DOHC in the GM engine portfolio. A “switch” would imply that the Small Block is going away. It should also be noted that the DOHC in question is a 4.2TT that has been defined as Cadillac only.

I guess time will tell. It's pretty well known that there is a 5.5 dohc v8 tt planned for the mid engine Corvette. And we all know there is no history of engine trickle down from the 'Vette to the Camaro. :doh:

I have no hatred for GM products, just people that stick their head in the sand, and talk to others like they're idiots.

Then again, the way Camaro sales are going, you may be right. The Camaro will probably be discontinued again before they need to worry about an engine for it.

 

[martinjlm]

Isn't GM going to make a DOHC V8 for the mid engine Corvette?

What mid-engine Corvette?

 

[martinjlm]

I guess time will tell. It's pretty well known that there is a 5.5 dohc v8 tt planned for the mid engine Corvette. And we all know there is no history of engine trickle down from the 'Vette to the Camaro. :doh:

I have no hatred for GM products, just people that stick their head in the sand, and talk to others like they're idiots.

Then again, the way Camaro sales are going, you may be right. The Camaro will probably be discontinued again before they need to worry about an engine for it.

Regarding the part in bold.....Don't hold your breathe. GM is very happy with the profits Camaro is bringing in. Sales race is secondary. One thing that WAS tracked when I was there was RETAIL sales. Camaro and Mustang are closer than you might think in terms of retail sales and GM intentionally limits Camaro sales to rental fleets.

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

Regarding the part in bold.....Don't hold your breathe. GM is very happy with the profits Camaro is bringing in. Sales race is secondary. One thing that WAS tracked when I was there was RETAIL sales. Camaro and Mustang are closer than you might think in terms of retail sales and GM intentionally limits Camaro sales to rental fleets.

Oh here we go...

 

[jake_zx2]

What mid-engine Corvette?

Is that a hint at a mid-engine cadillac? That's what I've been guessing since day 1, but I've been hearing a lot of rumblings about it being a corvette

 

[martinjlm]

Is that a hint at a mid-engine cadillac? That's what I've been guessing since day 1, but I've been hearing a lot of rumblings about it being a corvette

It means that GM has neither confirmed or denied any of the rumors floating around about what the next Corvette might be, so neither will I.

 

[thehunterooo]

R E T A I L S A L E S

P R O F I T S

 

[Silver Bullitt]

Hmmmm?

 

[bootlegger]

Also different days, and I'd wager that the 2018 was at the disadvantage as far as track conditions go. To have more horsepower, better gearing, magride, MUCH better tires, and improved aero, yet only run .4 seconds faster displays a HUGE discrepancy in track conditions. Hell, on that exact track, the Camaro ZL1 was over 1.5 seconds slower when put head to head with the GT350R than it was in a previous test. I highly doubt the PP1 is "Running in place", the track discrepancies just make it seem that way

We have been over this a million times. For a guy who races, he really doesn’t get how important it is to run under the same conditions when doing comparisons.

 

[Fatguy]

Hmmmm?

We already have the Ford GT.

 

[millhouse]

Regarding the part in bold.....Don't hold your breathe. GM is very happy with the profits Camaro is bringing in. Sales race is secondary. One thing that WAS tracked when I was there was RETAIL sales. Camaro and Mustang are closer than you might think in terms of retail sales and GM intentionally limits Camaro sales to rental fleets.

Right, because you have insider knowledge as to GM's profit margin on the camaros. You know exactly the dollar per vehicle that goes toward tooling and legacy costs. And the fact the GM had to fur-low employees and idle the plant for several months and had 6 months worth of inventory sitting on dealer lots during the first year of production doesn't point to GM missing the mark on what their sales expectations were. And the fact the GM plans to reduce camaro content to try to gain more sales to compete with the base GT shows the camaro is selling exactly what they want.

Typical GM blind loyalty garbage alert!

But profits....but fleet sales. :lol:

 

[Norm Peterson]

Also different days, and I'd wager that the 2018 was at the disadvantage as far as track conditions go. To have more horsepower, better gearing, magride, MUCH better tires, and improved aero, yet only run .4 seconds faster displays a HUGE discrepancy in track conditions. Hell, on that exact track, the Camaro ZL1 was over 1.5 seconds slower when put head to head with the GT350R than it was in a previous test. I highly doubt the PP1 is "Running in place", the track discrepancies just make it seem that way

Possibly. Maybe even likely.

But if that's truly the case (and I'm not going to waste any energy disputing whether it is or isn't, could or couldn't), are you ready for the idea that the 1LE lap times really should have been in the one-teens with the PP1 running 1:22's on the same day?


Norm

 

[martinjlm]

Right, because you have insider knowledge as to GM's profit margin on the camaros.

I did. Not so much anymore since I've been gone a year, but I'm fairly certain it hasn't tanked in that year I've been gone. Nobody I know on the vehicle team is perched on the ledge.

You know exactly the dollar per vehicle that goes toward tooling and legacy costs.

Never have. Don't need to. But the folks that do need to constantly monitor this to make certain that the business case is solid enough to move on to the next project. They haven't blinked.

And the fact the GM had to fur-low employees and idle the plant for several months and had 6 months worth of inventory sitting on dealer lots during the first year of production doesn't point to GM missing the mark on what their sales expectations were.

They probably are missing targets on sales numbers. Rather than keep the factory rolling and then heavily discounting the car, the new discipline in GM, since 2010, is to shut off the supply until inventory gets rebalanced and then start it up again. We've shut down truck plants for weeks to balance inventory. Truck profits are well into 5 digits per vehicle, yet plants have been furloughed (not fur-lowed ;) )

And the fact the GM plans to reduce camaro content to try to gain more sales to compete with the base GT shows the camaro is selling exactly what they want.

Just so you get this correct, there is no plan to reduce Camaro content. A 2SS will still be loaded to the gills. The idea is to introduce a model under the 1SS that will allow buyers to get a V8 Camaro below the current $37,995 price of entry. The 1SS, 2SS, and ZL1 content will probably increase (new tech) or stay the same if the new tech is made optional.

Typical GM blind loyalty garbage alert!

I've owned four Mustangs during the time that I have worked at GM and could very well add another one at some point in time.

But profits....but fleet sales. :lol:

Facts is facts. Camaro makes money. GM intentionally restricts sales to rental fleets because the sales prices to rental fleets are lower and the return of rental cars to the used car market lowers the lease residual value for new cars. The information is publicly available. The following is a quote from Michelle Krebs, a top industry analyst, from June 2017....

"GM used to be all about sales volume and market share,” Autotrader senior analyst Michelle Krebs said. “Now, if they don’t see a path to profitability and leadership, they get out. The goal is to sell fewer vehicles and make more money. It’s a new GM.”

I guess that makes her just as clueless as I am. She is definitely NOT clueless.

Also from June 2017, GM North America President Alan Batey explains GM's rental car strategy:

Alan Batey, GM North American President, told Automotive News the cuts would continue into 2018 and will mark four straight years of cuts. GM’s rental sales are on pace to fall 50,000 units this year, though, next year’s sales have not been disclosed yet. In 2014, GM’s rental sales made up 16.1 percent of its overall sales numbers—that figure was 11.7 percent in 2016.
The additional cuts could bring the percentage into single digits—a very good thing for GM.
“We like the rent-a-car business from a seats-in-seats perspective because it’s great test drives and it’s a great opportunity to expose new people to our products,” Batey said. “We don’t like it when it’s bringing too many nearly new vehicles back into the market to compete with our new business and compress our resale values.”
Vehicles returning to the market after rental duty wreak havoc on new car sales and cause residual values to plummet on many models. Not to mention, rental fleet sales are often a money-losing business for automakers. GM’s old way of thinking would pump thousands of cars into rental fleets to keep assembly lines humming and total sales figures high.


Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/06...ting-rental-sales-through-2018/#ixzz5C5qn55HA

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