Is Ford lacking on performance?

[Hack]

I don't think so. Not even close!

Viper ACR immediately came to my mind as a great example of a recent car that also has a much more aggressive aero package.

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[jake_zx2]

Possibly. Maybe even likely.

But if that's truly the case (and I'm not going to waste any energy disputing whether it is or isn't, could or couldn't), are you ready for the idea that the 1LE lap times really should have been in the one-teens with the PP1 running 1:22's on the same day?


Norm

That's not even logical thinking. The gap being about 3 seconds between the PP1 and 1LE on the same day would mean that regardless of whether or not the 1LE was in the teens, the PP1 would still be right around the same 3 seconds behind, and the PP2 would be right there in the teens with it. Why would that bother me anymore than a 1:23 vs 1:26 or even a 1:51 vs 1:54 would? It's still a 3 second gap, regardless of what the Camaro runs

 

[Fatguy]

I don't think so. Not even close!

Forgot about the Superbird but we are getting there with this baby as in a Camaro ZL1 (I snapped these photos and highlighted the pics to show detail):

And check out the areo spoilers on the front:

And – Check out the scoops as they are just large holes with coolers inside (Mustangs don’t need cooling right?). One rock and you will be replacing those quick! Now, juxtapose this with the closed up grills on the PP on the Mustang. This ZL1 just screams “race car” and “race track” and the only thing missing is the duct tape. That hood! Fully functional and not some “gay” little grills by the headlights. Real functional everything! You are not going daily driving with this car for sure. Anyone just looking at it thinks it is for the track and track alone.

I checked out this Callaway Corvette (and took these photos) just a few hours ago and sadly was sold.

But it produces just shy of 800 horsepower and torque sold through a Chevy dealer! There were 20 other Corvettes at this dealer from Stingrays to Grand Sports to 2019 Z06s. And even more Camaros. Ford has to up its game a bit at the consumer level…..

 

[jake_zx2]

And – Check out the scoops as they are just large holes with coolers inside (Mustangs don’t need cooling right?). One rock and you will be replacing those quick! Now, juxtapose this with the closed up grills on the PP on the Mustang. This ZL1 just screams “race car” and “race track” and the only thing missing is the duct tape. That hood! Fully functional and not some “gay” little grills by the headlights. Real functional everything! You are not going daily driving with this car for sure. Anyone just looking at it thinks it is for the track and track only

The closed up grilles on the mustang are like that to prevent front end lift. During development, Ford had it all opened up, but found there was too much lift at high speeds. they duct taped parts of the grille closed, and found that it improved the lap times and reduced lift, so they kept it that way. The mustang hood is also fully functional... I'd wager even more functional than the ZL1 hood. The only purpose of the bulge in the ZL1 hood is to clear the supercharger. as far as I know, there are no heat extractors in it

 

[Fatguy]

The closed up grilles on the mustang are like that to prevent front end lift. During development, Ford had it all opened up, but found there was too much lift at high speeds. they duct taped parts of the grille closed, and found that it improved the lap times and reduced lift, so they kept it that way. The mustang hood is also fully functional... I'd wager even more functional than the ZL1 hood. The only purpose of the bulge in the ZL1 hood is to clear the supercharger. as far as I know, there are no heat extractors in it

They “the hood vents” are functional and you can check out Doug Demuro’s review on the ZL1 and see it with the hood open. I have close-up pics but nelected to upload them to my servers.

 

[bootlegger]

Possibly. Maybe even likely.

But if that's truly the case (and I'm not going to waste any energy disputing whether it is or isn't, could or couldn't), are you ready for the idea that the 1LE lap times really should have been in the one-teens with the PP1 running 1:22's on the same day?


Norm

Maybe. Or maybe the Mustang, lacking proper coolers, was feeling the conditions more than the 1LE that day. Either way, you can’t compare times on different days and conditions and pretend they are gospel.

 

[jake_zx2]

They “the hood vents” are functional and you can check out Doug Demuro’s review on the ZL1 and see it with the hood open. I have close-up pics but nelected to upload them to my servers.

I see the heat extractors in it now, but even at that, they appear to have around the same volume as the Mustang vents

 

[Fatguy]

I see the heat extractors in it now, but even at that, they appear to have around the same volume as the Mustang vents

The Camaro has the same problem with lift so they added wings for more downforce. I am going by memory but I think the hood vent helps with downforce more than anything else. What it is - is a no compromise for performance attitude for performance. Personally I think engineered performance as long as functional always looks good. But that is just me and for once the rear spoiler/wing is probably needed in a car that comes close to a 200mph top speed.

 

[Fatguy]

I see the heat extractors in it now, but even at that, they appear to have around the same volume as the Mustang vents

Ok, here is that photo of the hood:

Note the increased rake of the hood that increases downforce by 60-70 pounds but cut it off before it affected sight lines. Also note the gap between the hood and carbon fibre engine cover that’s more than needed for heat dissipation but it probably serves that purpose too. Two for the price of one - I just love clever engineering! I even love the fact they hollowed out the grill bow tie to improve airflow. Now that is no compromise dedication to performance!

 

[jake_zx2]

Where did you see an additional 70lbs of downforce from just the hood? That sounds like the work of the splitters and canards, not the hood. The hood vent isn't that wide open... if you look underneath, there are 2 small holes that are about the same size as the mustang's hood vents. The car is cool and all, but I don't think it's this "testament to how inferior the mustang is" that you seem to infer

 

[Fatguy]

Where did you see an additional 70lbs of downforce from just the hood? That sounds like the work of the splitters and canards, not the hood. The hood vent isn't that wide open... if you look underneath, there are 2 small holes that are about the same size as the mustang's hood vents. The car is cool and all, but I don't think it's this "testament to how inferior the mustang is" that you seem to infer

I just pocked around the net but it makes sense. I’m not saying one is better than the other as much as celebrating good no compromise engineering. Personally I have not seen many cars give up appearances for functionality and performance like this car. And I actually find it attractive and beautiful.

 

[jake_zx2]

there are tons of people who like the look of aggressive aero, that's why you see so many people running non-functional crap for appearance. I also really like the look of the ZL1 1LE, especially the canards

 

[NoVaGT]

When the PP1 debuted, it was claiming to be the GT's top-shelf option in all respects. It wasn't in at least three respects (wheels, tires, and damping), and it got its clock cleaned as a result. Simply put, it didn't live up to its implied billing.

9" wide front wheels and 255/xx tires haven't been top-shelf corner-carving choices since the Fox/SN95. For 9.5" wheels, call it not since the earliest S197's.


Norm

No......it didn't live up to your vague "implied billing". What does that even mean?

I'll say this once again, Performance Pack or not;

GT Mustangs are NOT track or drag cars. They are Grand Touring cars, meant to do just what they do, and they do it very well. Adding a Performance Package does not mean it's ready to go to a track and run for an hour, and Ford has never implied that AFAIK.

If that's what you want to do, you buy the GT350R, or modify your Mustang to be able to do that.

 

[Norm Peterson]

No......it didn't live up to your vague "implied billing". What does that even mean?

So let's forget every single word everybody has typed about this to date. Here, elsewhere, even Ford's own announcements.

Suppose you're selling a car that's (obviously) got a base level suspension/wheel/tires/etc., and something called 'Performance Package' that's of somewhat higher performance potential. Your main competition also has a base level car, but its performance package is of significantly higher performance capability. Wouldn't you expect (or at least want) your officially-tagged 'Performance Package' to be closer to the competition's performance package than to its base-level? Wouldn't you want your PP to perform at a clear distance above the competition's base car, even if it doesn't quite match the other guy's PP?


Norm

 

[Fatguy]

In the UK "base" is PP1.

If you can afford it buy an s550 Norm, you don't know what you are missing.

Hey Norm, you do what all us old farts do: Buy a Vette and avoid all of this! :lol:

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