Is Ford lacking on performance?

[Eritas]

We already have the Ford GT.

Twin Turbo 5L+ V8. Has the potential to destroy the GT and 720S/488GTO competitors for a fraction of the price. I can't wait.

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[2018OFPP1?2]

I did. Not so much anymore since I've been gone a year, but I'm fairly certain it hasn't tanked in that year I've been gone. Nobody I know on the vehicle team is perched on the ledge.

Never have. Don't need to. But the folks that do need to constantly monitor this to make certain that the business case is solid enough to move on to the next project. They haven't blinked.


They probably are missing targets on sales numbers. Rather than keep the factory rolling and then heavily discounting the car, the new discipline in GM, since 2010, is to shut off the supply until inventory gets rebalanced and then start it up again. We've shut down truck plants for weeks to balance inventory. Truck profits are well into 5 digits per vehicle, yet plants have been furloughed (not fur-lowed ;) )



Just so you get this correct, there is no plan to reduce Camaro content. A 2SS will still be loaded to the gills. The idea is to introduce a model under the 1SS that will allow buyers to get a V8 Camaro below the current $37,995 price of entry. The 1SS, 2SS, and ZL1 content will probably increase (new tech) or stay the same if the new tech is made optional.


I've owned four Mustangs during the time that I have worked at GM and could very well add another one at some point in time.



Facts is facts. Camaro makes money. GM intentionally restricts sales to rental fleets because the sales prices to rental fleets are lower and the return of rental cars to the used car market lowers the lease residual value for new cars. The information is publicly available. The following is a quote from Michelle Krebs, a top industry analyst, from June 2017....

"GM used to be all about sales volume and market share,” Autotrader senior analyst Michelle Krebs said. “Now, if they don’t see a path to profitability and leadership, they get out. The goal is to sell fewer vehicles and make more money. It’s a new GM.”

I guess that makes her just as clueless as I am. She is definitely NOT clueless.

Also from June 2017, GM North America President Alan Batey explains GM's rental car strategy:

Alan Batey, GM North American President, told Automotive News the cuts would continue into 2018 and will mark four straight years of cuts. GM’s rental sales are on pace to fall 50,000 units this year, though, next year’s sales have not been disclosed yet. In 2014, GM’s rental sales made up 16.1 percent of its overall sales numbers—that figure was 11.7 percent in 2016.
The additional cuts could bring the percentage into single digits—a very good thing for GM.
“We like the rent-a-car business from a seats-in-seats perspective because it’s great test drives and it’s a great opportunity to expose new people to our products,” Batey said. “We don’t like it when it’s bringing too many nearly new vehicles back into the market to compete with our new business and compress our resale values.”
Vehicles returning to the market after rental duty wreak havoc on new car sales and cause residual values to plummet on many models. Not to mention, rental fleet sales are often a money-losing business for automakers. GM’s old way of thinking would pump thousands of cars into rental fleets to keep assembly lines humming and total sales figures high.


Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/06...ting-rental-sales-through-2018/#ixzz5C5qn55HA

All I hear is that new GM vehicles can't compete with used GM vehicles. Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ford. Next the GM spin doctors will be telling us they don't want all the truck fleet sales Ford has :lol:

 

[howlins550]

Twin Turbo 5L+ V8. Has the potential to destroy the GT and 720S/488GTO competitors for a fraction of the price. I can't wait.

Ford's engines are also all within the guidelines of the IMSA series, they dont make a car that has 6+ Liters then have to design a one off motor to compete in the racing series

 

[Snagged]

I think some of the people complaining about the lack of power must never have owned an older 5.0. Before I put a Kenne Bell on my 95, it was rated at 215/285.

Lol, indeed. I had a 94 GT and I remember how slow it was. But it was still a fun car. Especially after I put 3.73's in it.

Idk, I manage to have plenty of fun in my na '92 5.0

The SN95's were heavier though so took away some of the fun factor the Foxes had.

 

[martinjlm]

Ford's engines are also all within the guidelines of the IMSA series, they dont make a car that has 6+ Liters then have to design a one off motor to compete in the racing series

True. Two different approaches to the supercar market. Ford developed the GT to get back into the racing circuit and developed it to fit the circuit rules. Then made it available at stratospheric prices for collectors with rules on ordering and retention. They are selling them at their price so that’s a win.

GM developed the ZR1 to take on Ferrari 488, Porsche 911 GT3, and McLaren 570 head on. Anybody with a sufficient checkbook can buy one. On the performance targets, GM has hit its target. We’ll see how it does on the market in the coming months.

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

That's where Ford effed up. The GT with its TT V6 is a a trophy car, yea it performs well but the GT should have a TT V8 with 800+ HP. Honestly this mid engine corvette will be a great car, too bad I'm only 32 years old so I won't be in the Corvette owner demographic for another 30 years.

You could always have an early mid-life crisis :eyebulge:

 

[Eritas]

Ford's engines are also all within the guidelines of the IMSA series, they dont make a car that has 6+ Liters then have to design a one off motor to compete in the racing series

True, and that (as well as LeMans) is why it's special. However it does not make it a street-bruiser like the 4L McLaren or this new Vette. There's no replacement for displacement.

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

True, and that (as well as LeMans) is why it's special. However it does not make it a street-bruiser like the 4L McLaren or this new Vette. There's no replacement for displacement.

A couple of turbos go a long way...

 

[howlins550]

True. Two different approaches to the supercar market. Ford developed the GT to get back into the racing circuit and developed it to fit the circuit rules. Then made it available at stratospheric prices for collectors with rules on ordering and retention. They are selling them at their price so that’s a win.

GM developed the ZR1 to take on Ferrari 488, Porsche 911 GT3, and McLaren 570 head on. Anybody with a sufficient checkbook can buy one. On the performance targets, GM has hit its target. We’ll see how it does on the market in the coming months.

I believe all the cars mentioned are also within the racing rules, which is what makes them impressive. Of course you could always take the view of well I'm not racing so what does it matter. The twin turbo v8s used by McLaren and Ferrari are small in displacement, Porsche still running na I think.

 

[Fatguy]

That's where Ford effed up. The GT with its TT V6 is a a trophy car, yea it performs well but the GT should have a TT V8 with 800+ HP. Honestly this mid engine corvette will be a great car, too bad I'm only 32 years old so I won't be in the Corvette owner demographic for another 30 years.

I checked out a Calloway Corvette Z06 today as 21 Corvettes came into this dealership this week. These are creeping up on 800 horsepower/torque but it was already snapped up. I checked out a Camaro ZL1 earlier in the week and I have to say this was the most compelling with the wildest rear spoiler I have ever seen on a stock car and front wheel offsets so wide they have little winged spoilers in front of the wheels with the arodynamic package. I took pics of all and that ZL1 hood and even the Calloway hood are super cool to look at.


Who buys these cars? Old farts like me. And I would guess the dude who snagged the Calloway has health problems and this car is his ”swan song” to the world. So keep driving your sports car daily driver and keep drilling women when the opportunity presents itself cause nothing lasts forever. That guy with the car you lust for would give everything he has to get back the years you have. So there...

 

[martinjlm]

I checked out a Calloway Corvette Z06 today as 21 Corvettes came into this dealership this week. These are creeping up on 800 horsepower/torque but it was already snapped up. I checked out a Camaro ZL1 earlier in the week and I have to say this was the most compelling with the wildest rear spoiler I have ever seen on a stock car and front wheel offsets so wide they have little winged spoilers in front of the wheels with the arodynamic package. I took pics of all and that ZL1 hood and even the Calloway hood are super cool to look at.


Who buys these cars? Old farts like me. And I would guess the dude who snagged the Calloway has health problems and this car is his ”swan song” to the world. So keep driving your sports car daily driver and keep drilling women when the opportunity presents itself cause nothing lasts forever. That guy with the car you lust for would give everything he has to get back the years you have. So there...

Must’ve been a ZL1 1LE. That spoiler and the front airfoils are a bit over the top for my taste. Guess I haven’t reached that age you’re talking about just yet. :cheers:

 

[millhouse]

I did. Not so much anymore since I've been gone a year, but I'm fairly certain it hasn't tanked in that year I've been gone. Nobody I know on the vehicle team is perched on the ledge.

Never have. Don't need to. But the folks that do need to constantly monitor this to make certain that the business case is solid enough to move on to the next project. They haven't blinked.


They probably are missing targets on sales numbers. Rather than keep the factory rolling and then heavily discounting the car, the new discipline in GM, since 2010, is to shut off the supply until inventory gets rebalanced and then start it up again. We've shut down truck plants for weeks to balance inventory. Truck profits are well into 5 digits per vehicle, yet plants have been furloughed (not fur-lowed ;) )



Just so you get this correct, there is no plan to reduce Camaro content. A 2SS will still be loaded to the gills. The idea is to introduce a model under the 1SS that will allow buyers to get a V8 Camaro below the current $37,995 price of entry. The 1SS, 2SS, and ZL1 content will probably increase (new tech) or stay the same if the new tech is made optional.


I've owned four Mustangs during the time that I have worked at GM and could very well add another one at some point in time.



Facts is facts. Camaro makes money. GM intentionally restricts sales to rental fleets because the sales prices to rental fleets are lower and the return of rental cars to the used car market lowers the lease residual value for new cars. The information is publicly available. The following is a quote from Michelle Krebs, a top industry analyst, from June 2017....

"GM used to be all about sales volume and market share,” Autotrader senior analyst Michelle Krebs said. “Now, if they don’t see a path to profitability and leadership, they get out. The goal is to sell fewer vehicles and make more money. It’s a new GM.”

I guess that makes her just as clueless as I am. She is definitely NOT clueless.

Also from June 2017, GM North America President Alan Batey explains GM's rental car strategy:

Alan Batey, GM North American President, told Automotive News the cuts would continue into 2018 and will mark four straight years of cuts. GM’s rental sales are on pace to fall 50,000 units this year, though, next year’s sales have not been disclosed yet. In 2014, GM’s rental sales made up 16.1 percent of its overall sales numbers—that figure was 11.7 percent in 2016.
The additional cuts could bring the percentage into single digits—a very good thing for GM.
“We like the rent-a-car business from a seats-in-seats perspective because it’s great test drives and it’s a great opportunity to expose new people to our products,” Batey said. “We don’t like it when it’s bringing too many nearly new vehicles back into the market to compete with our new business and compress our resale values.”
Vehicles returning to the market after rental duty wreak havoc on new car sales and cause residual values to plummet on many models. Not to mention, rental fleet sales are often a money-losing business for automakers. GM’s old way of thinking would pump thousands of cars into rental fleets to keep assembly lines humming and total sales figures high.


Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/06...ting-rental-sales-through-2018/#ixzz5C5qn55HA

So in short, you have detailed sales, profit structure, retirement and legacy costs analysis...and here you are arguing as a troll in a mustang forum. :lol:

But seriously, having a 6 month supply of camaros, eliminating 3rd shift and laying off employees was part of GM's mater plan. They didn't need those expected sales right?

As for reducing camaro content, isn't introducing a lower level V8 model with "reduced content" doing just that?

But yeah, those 3680 camaros sold in February were right on target.

 

[Snagged]

That's where Ford effed up. The GT with its TT V6 is a a trophy car, yea it performs well but the GT should have a TT V8 with 800+ HP. Honestly this mid engine corvette will be a great car, too bad I'm only 32 years old so I won't be in the Corvette owner demographic for another 30 years.

Well there is always the future! ;) Although I'm sure it's pretty doubtful

 

[millhouse]

That's where Ford effed up. The GT with its TT V6 is a a trophy car, yea it performs well but the GT should have a TT V8 with 800+ HP. Honestly this mid engine corvette will be a great car, too bad I'm only 32 years old so I won't be in the Corvette owner demographic for another 30 years.

It a streetlegal race car. The reason the currently exist is soley for racing circuits.

True. Two different approaches to the supercar market. Ford developed the GT to get back into the racing circuit and developed it to fit the circuit rules. Then made it available at stratospheric prices for collectors with rules on ordering and retention. They are selling them at their price so that’s a win.

GM developed the ZR1 to take on Ferrari 488, Porsche 911 GT3, and McLaren 570 head on. Anybody with a sufficient checkbook can buy one. On the performance targets, GM has hit its target. We’ll see how it does on the market in the coming months.

Even with the high prices, the GT was still deemed a value. And of course, unlike the corvette, will continue to appreciate in value.

As for the ZR1, GM loves to play the bigger penis game. None in their right mind put the ZR1 in the same league as the 488, 911 GT3 or anything with the McLaren name tag.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

...with the wildest rear spoiler I have ever seen on a stock car...

I don't think so. Not even close!

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