Sponsored

I hate to bring this up but....

geoking

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
194
Reaction score
234
Location
Huntsville , AL
First Name
George
Vehicle(s)
31,34,48 and 2019 Fords + a 58& 66 Chevy trucks

Melange_X3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
575
Reaction score
430
Location
Southern California
First Name
D
Vehicle(s)
2016 Shelby GT350, 2017 Ford Focus ST, On Order 2020 CTFP Shelby GT 500 with POTTS. Car is released and awaiting shipment. I am running out of time before having to leave for Japan on July 29th.

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,060
Reaction score
7,143
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
I hate to bring this up but a lengthy strike could put the GT500 way behind schedule

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2019/08/14/uaw-contract-talks-2019-ford/1997833001/
Interesting story. I didn't realize the information below.

Ford builds more vehicles in the United States and employs more U.S. hourly employees than any other automaker. Also, more than 80% of the vehicles that Ford sells in the United States are built here
I don't like unions, because I think they tend to drive companies out of business and make them less profitable. It's difficult for a company to be competitive if they have to pay their workers too much money. It means the company has to try to find other areas to cut costs. I'd like to see Ford and other automakers find non-union people that can be hired and fired based on their work performance and paid the going market rates.

I remember years ago talking to a guy who worked at the St. Paul Ford plant building Rangers. I was working as an engineer and he made significantly more money than me. He also could spend his day picking up cardboard on the assembly line rather than doing difficult tasks - due to his seniority at the plant. It's no wonder to me that the St. Paul plant had to close if they were paying senior employees strong wages to pick up cardboard. That should be an entry level, low paying task.
 

kilobravo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Threads
72
Messages
7,735
Reaction score
6,776
Location
Corpus Christi Texas
Website
kilobravo.com
First Name
KB
Vehicle(s)
'16 CT6, '18 SD, '20 GT 500
Vehicle Showcase
1
Hack: I was a working union member for over thirty years and I must respectfully disagree. If managements were HONEST and required the same sacrifices they ask of labor, things would be much different. IMHO, corporate management couldn't care less about its employees, all they care about is the bottom line and most importantly, THEIR bottom line. Without an entity to "push back," the average management group would eventually want you to work for nothing.
 

Sponsored

Bikeman315

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Threads
513
Messages
15,016
Reaction score
18,488
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
First Name
Ira
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang GT/CS, 2021 Volvo XC60
Two sides to every story. My dad was a lifetime union member in NYC. Even though he had a good employer, the union kept the not so good ones in line. My son-in-law worked up until recently at an Amazon warehouse. It is well known that Amazon treats its employees there like animals. A union would certainly help.
 

kilobravo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Threads
72
Messages
7,735
Reaction score
6,776
Location
Corpus Christi Texas
Website
kilobravo.com
First Name
KB
Vehicle(s)
'16 CT6, '18 SD, '20 GT 500
Vehicle Showcase
1
Obviously, this is not the place for a discussion on the subject of organized labor but a phrase that I believe sums things up is,

No company ever got a union they didn't deserve.
 

BlackandBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
886
Reaction score
845
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Mustang
Unions are just a symptom of a problem this country has had for the last 106 years.

Small business as overly burdened with the regulation large companies have to ability to scale to defeat. The tax code being the largest. Healthcare coming in a close second.

Regulation should scale with business size. At this point it is the complete opposite.

Small business is the golden goose of this country. Unions are just a patch.
 

ChuckXX

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2019
Threads
27
Messages
493
Reaction score
217
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
First Name
Chuck
Vehicle(s)
2020 SHELBY GT 500
Just saw on the national news this morning that the FBI just raided the home of the President of the UAW. I don't know any other details. It was just on the national news.
 

bluebeastsrt

Oh boy
Joined
May 10, 2015
Threads
79
Messages
7,552
Reaction score
7,025
Location
New Jersey
First Name
BigD
Vehicle(s)
Ruby red 2019 GT Premium.
Interesting story. I didn't realize the information below.



I don't like unions, because I think they tend to drive companies out of business and make them less profitable. It's difficult for a company to be competitive if they have to pay their workers too much money. It means the company has to try to find other areas to cut costs. I'd like to see Ford and other automakers find non-union people that can be hired and fired based on their work performance and paid the going market rates.

I remember years ago talking to a guy who worked at the St. Paul Ford plant building Rangers. I was working as an engineer and he made significantly more money than me. He also could spend his day picking up cardboard on the assembly line rather than doing difficult tasks - due to his seniority at the plant. It's no wonder to me that the St. Paul plant had to close if they were paying senior employees strong wages to pick up cardboard. That should be an entry level, low paying task.
This thinking is whats killing the middle class. GM, Ford, Shell oil, Exxon etc. Make profits in the billions every year. And they make those profits off of the backs of their workers. So lets let these giant, ultra rich companies. Pocket even more profit? By cutting pay and benefits? How does anyone in this country benefit from that? With the exception of large share holders and board members. Is Ford going to cut the cost of a Mustang? And pass that saving on to the consumer? Is Exxon going to lower the price of gas? At the pace this country is going. Your going to have two classes in this country. Rich and poor. And trust me. Most wont like the ratio of rich/poor. Where does it end? Ask yourself how long would it take these billion dollar companies. To replace you with illegal immigrants? Who would work for less than minimum wage. And are happy to get free health care from the government. If they could get away with it.
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,060
Reaction score
7,143
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
Hack: I was a working union member for over thirty years and I must respectfully disagree. If managements were HONEST and required the same sacrifices they ask of labor, things would be much different. IMHO, corporate management couldn't care less about its employees, all they care about is the bottom line and most importantly, THEIR bottom line. Without an entity to "push back," the average management group would eventually want you to work for nothing.
Workers are free to work for any company, or to start their own business. And lots of people hop jobs over and over to get raises, different experience, etc. Corporations don't have to care about workers, just like workers don't have to care about the corporation they work for. However, if the corporation doesn't offer to pay the worker as much money as their competitors do, the workers will go work for another company. And the best workers will start their own competing companies and beat the corporation at its own game. There's no need for a union for workers to get a "fair" wage. Competition naturally takes care of that.

With no union, the best workers get paid a lot and the worst workers don't get paid much or they get fired. With a union, there's no motivation to work hard. If the employees don't work hard, the company produces fewer products. Then the company isn't as competitive and may end up going out of business.

This thinking is whats killing the middle class. GM, Ford, Shell oil, Exxon etc. Make profits in the billions every year. And they make those profits off of the backs of their workers. So lets let these giant, ultra rich companies. Pocket even more profit? By cutting pay and benefits? How does anyone in this country benefit from that? With the exception of large share holders and board members. Is Ford going to cut the cost of a Mustang? And pass that saving on to the consumer? Is Exxon going to lower the price of gas? At the pace this country is going. Your going to have two classes in this country. Rich and poor. And trust me. Most wont like the ratio of rich/poor. Where does it end? Ask yourself how long would it take these billion dollar companies. To replace you with illegal immigrants? Who would work for less than minimum wage. And are happy to get free health care from the government. If they could get away with it.
Everyone in the world benefits from the great products that are produced by American businesses and American people. Companies can't sell products unless they are able to make a product that is better than the products made by the competition. Successful companies employ a lot of people and produce products that benefit lots of people. Making money is something that companies need to do in order to hire people to develop and make more products. Economics 101.

Ford darn will cut the cost of the Mustang if no one can afford the expensive version. Same goes for every product you and I buy every day. If everyone starts buying something else that's cheaper, the companies will try to figure out how to change the products they make so that people will buy them. Right now, we both know that the GT350 was too cheap from Ford. So lots of people including me paid more than MSRP for a GT350. I would argue that Mustang is priced quite well. It's a performance bargain - especially the base Mustang.

Big companies aren't our enemies. You need a big company with lots of resources to be able to develop and build complex and expensive things like cars. But you have the cause and effect backwards. Companies aren't "sticking it to the little guy". They are trying to make products that every little guy wants to buy. And by making great products, those companies benefit all of us. They especially benefit their employees. And it's a free relationship for the employees. IF there's something better out there, those people can quit at any time and go to work for another company. Companies need to attract and keep employees. And they do that by paying them well.

The middle class isn't dead. Most of us are in the middle class, by my way of thinking. But some people are greedy and think that their middle class life isn't good enough. Or they think just because they can't afford every single thing they want that they can't be in the middle class.
 

bluebeastsrt

Oh boy
Joined
May 10, 2015
Threads
79
Messages
7,552
Reaction score
7,025
Location
New Jersey
First Name
BigD
Vehicle(s)
Ruby red 2019 GT Premium.
Hows all that working out for GM employees? GM builds more cars in mexico now. Shutters American plants. And worst of all took a goverment bailout when the going got tuff. You wanna call the working man greedy for wanting a cost of living raise? When board members collect hundreds of millions in bonuses? Doesn't matter if the company is profitable or not? Look up the bonus the president of GM collected in 2009. When he went to Obama with his hat in his hand. Begging for a goverment hand out. Dont talk to me about these great American companies. If it wasn't for the bail out Ford would have been the last American car manufacturer standing.
 

HoosierDaddy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Threads
232
Messages
3,248
Reaction score
6,979
Location
Winchestertonfieldville (ok, Scottsdale), AZ
First Name
Randy
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Premium PP
I'm not the only one who's read Hayek...
I like some of her movies but never read anything by her.

I knew a man, his brain was so small
He couldn't think of nothing at all
Not the same as you and me
He doesn't dig poetry
He's so unhip that when you say Dylan
He thinks you're talking about Dylan Thomas
Whoever he was
The man ain't got no culture
But it's alright, ma, everybody must get stoned
 
OP
OP
EcoVert

EcoVert

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2016
Threads
94
Messages
3,453
Reaction score
1,874
Location
W.VA
Vehicle(s)
2015 Ecoboost convertible
Vehicle Showcase
4
Ask yourself how long would it take these billion dollar companies. To replace you with illegal immigrants? Who would work for less than minimum wage.
Not only replacing us with illegal immigrants but with machines. Anyone one been in Walmart lately they have installed more self checkouts and reduced to five or six lanes where there is a casher and usually they only have two of those lanes manned. Walmart wants you to use the self checkouts and eventually that's all they'll have. No need to have ten people to run registers when you can have one or two watching cameras. I do not and will not use a self checkout.
Sponsored

 
 




Top