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I hate car dealers (rant)

BimmerDriver

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Yes, I know this is only my second post, but I've been lurking a bit. I test drove a 2018 GT six-speed a few weeks ago and liked it, so the negotiation process started. First off, the car is advertised for (I don't remember exact numbers, so these are just for example) MSRP of $38,000 and selling for $31,479. No fine print or asterisk on the web page, either in a browser or on the phone, but once you go in to buy it, you find out that you have to be a first responder, active military, recent college grad, trade-in a 2008 or newer car and must finance through Ford and be no taller than 5'3". OK, I made up that last part. So the real price is... well, who knows? They start playing their games, and there are so many incentives out there right now, and you can't tell which ones can be combined and which can't (I get different answers from different dealers) that it's impossible to know how much you're getting screwed. Because, let's face it, we're all getting screwed, we just don't know to what degree. And of course, it doesn't matter what price you end up at, they start crying "oh, we're not making anything on this deal!"

And yes, I'm well aware that as a frequent BMW buyer I have gotten screwed much, much more, but the buying process with European cars is typically a lot simpler, as they just tend to have fewer incentives and they always kiss you afterwards...

So, right now, I'm not buying a Mustang because I'm just so annoyed with the process.
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ALLSTOCK

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First, two things:
1. If you aren't able to find another similar model with the options you want (or dont want) at another dealer and are unwilling to compromise, it will severely weaken your position to negotiate. (this can be solved by custom ordering:wink:)
2. Always negotiate with the OTD(Out the Door) price and do not worry about incentives until the very end.

Ask the dealer (the one that you took a test drive with) to present you with an itemized price sheet of the OTD price. Essentially the number at the bottom of the sheet is how much is coming out of your pocket. It will include all the fees, charges, and taxes. Incentives are in MY opinion to be discussed AFTER the negotiation process. This prevents the dealer from offering you an incentive as a *discount*. Incentive are from FORD, not from the DEALER if i'm not mistaken.

Take this number to another dealer, and ask them to beat it. Doing things via email can make this process super stress free and easy.
Just make a throw-away account and start emailing dealers around your area. Be as transparent as possible.
Tell them the dealer you have an offer from currently, maybe even mention the salesman's name who you are working with.
Get them to play each other for the sale. With the 2019's in full production, im willing to bet theyre trying to push off last years model.
This is where the first point i mentioned comes in play. Other dealerships may or may not have the same optioned model as the one you test drove in their inventories.
This could result in them showing you a price that is much lower, but for a lesser optioned car, or vice versa, a higher price, but with more features.

Do the research.
Look up the prices for the options, crunch the numbers, find the relative differences.
Look up the incentives that are currently offered in your area from Ford.
Read the fine print. Note the dates. Take screen shots or print them out and bring them with you to the dealer.

Typically, you will eventually arrive at a number lower than the initial offer you got. If you are happy with it head into the dealer and talk incentives.

Its not difficult to not get ripped off by dealers, it just takes some time and effort.

But also, remember, at the end of the day, the dealer and salesman all need to eat, and provide for their families.
Fair is what you are looking for.

Best of luck!
 

WildHorse

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So go to a different Ford dealer.. or stick with Bayerische Motoren Werke.
 

Zombiefro

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Not trying to sound like a Jerk but at this point everyone knows those listing prices that are like 8K off the MSRP advertised is BS and piles on every incentive even if it doesn't stack. Also if you wanna find out how much you're getting screwed you can always ask for the invoice and see how that goes.
 

IronG

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Yes, I know this is only my second post, but I've been lurking a bit. I test drove a 2018 GT six-speed a few weeks ago and liked it, so the negotiation process started. First off, the car is advertised for (I don't remember exact numbers, so these are just for example) MSRP of $38,000 and selling for $31,479. No fine print or asterisk on the web page, either in a browser or on the phone, but once you go in to buy it, you find out that you have to be a first responder, active military, recent college grad, trade-in a 2008 or newer car and must finance through Ford and be no taller than 5'3". OK, I made up that last part. So the real price is... well, who knows? They start playing their games, and there are so many incentives out there right now, and you can't tell which ones can be combined and which can't (I get different answers from different dealers) that it's impossible to know how much you're getting screwed. Because, let's face it, we're all getting screwed, we just don't know to what degree. And of course, it doesn't matter what price you end up at, they start crying "oh, we're not making anything on this deal!"

And yes, I'm well aware that as a frequent BMW buyer I have gotten screwed much, much more, but the buying process with European cars is typically a lot simpler, as they just tend to have fewer incentives and they always kiss you afterwards...

So, right now, I'm not buying a Mustang because I'm just so annoyed with the process.
If you are ok with paying a premium and want a sporty car other then a bimmer, go get a Porsche. They are finicky like a BMW, but they are very entertaining. I have a 2014 Cayman and it is a blast to drive. Getting a Mustang as a change of pace and looking forward to it. If you still want a Mustang, do some homework (plenty of info on this forum alone) and go to a different dealer. Try getting xplan or use Costco to get your starting price then find the dealers that want to beat it. Takes a little time, but pretty easy and you have the satisfaction of knowing you got a very good or great deal.
 

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Bullitt77

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Yes, I know this is only my second post, but I've been lurking a bit. I test drove a 2018 GT six-speed a few weeks ago and liked it, so the negotiation process started. First off, the car is advertised for (I don't remember exact numbers, so these are just for example) MSRP of $38,000 and selling for $31,479. No fine print or asterisk on the web page, either in a browser or on the phone, but once you go in to buy it, you find out that you have to be a first responder, active military, recent college grad, trade-in a 2008 or newer car and must finance through Ford and be no taller than 5'3". OK, I made up that last part. So the real price is... well, who knows? They start playing their games, and there are so many incentives out there right now, and you can't tell which ones can be combined and which can't (I get different answers from different dealers) that it's impossible to know how much you're getting screwed. Because, let's face it, we're all getting screwed, we just don't know to what degree. And of course, it doesn't matter what price you end up at, they start crying "oh, we're not making anything on this deal!"

And yes, I'm well aware that as a frequent BMW buyer I have gotten screwed much, much more, but the buying process with European cars is typically a lot simpler, as they just tend to have fewer incentives and they always kiss you afterwards...

So, right now, I'm not buying a Mustang because I'm just so annoyed with the process.
They kiss you because BMW’s are very unreliable and they’re a POS and break so they know you will spend money at their Stealership to fix your car!
 

brpec

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those car salesman are stupid. I went to a dealer last Saturday and asked for a 19, PP 401. he got the keys for a 18, 401.

I told him I wanted 19 because of rev match and trying to stay away from the transmission issues.

He said that 18 had rev match, it didnt, he said It had active exhaust, it didnt..... He took 8.5k off the MSRP. i said no because that wasnt the car i wanted.

I had to teach him about the car, he didnt know anything. Those ford dealers are a joke.

Not only that they put so much pressure for me to buy the car that i got mad lol. Those shitty dealers dont give a crap about you, they just want to sell and thats is it. I know will be a pain in the ass when i find the car i want. and that was ford sandy springs (Atlanta)

btw, i went to a VW and lexus dealer and they were amazing. Too bad that they dont build manual v8.
 

WildHorse

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I had to teach him about the car, he didnt know anything. Those ford dealers are a joke.
Sales guy asked what year my Grabber Blue GT was.. I said thought you were a salesman lol.
 

boosted02

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those car salesman are stupid. I went to a dealer last Saturday and asked for a 19, PP 401. he got the keys for a 18, 401.

I told him I wanted 19 because of rev match and trying to stay away from the transmission issues.

He said that 18 had rev match, it didnt, he said It had active exhaust, it didnt..... He took 8.5k off the MSRP. i said no because that wasnt the car i wanted.

I had to teach him about the car, he didnt know anything. Those ford dealers are a joke.

Not only that they put so much pressure for me to buy the car that i got mad lol. Those shitty dealers dont give a crap about you, they just want to sell and thats is it. I know will be a pain in the ass when i find the car i want. and that was ford sandy springs (Atlanta)

btw, i went to a VW and lexus dealer and they were amazing. Too bad that they dont build manual v8.
Sandy springs is giving good deals by the way i went and looked at a 19
 

Deleted member 35644

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Do yourself a favor, and assemble all your information before you set foot on the dealership grounds. This keeps the "illusions" and "magic tricks" to a minimum. If you have any question about the rebates available to YOU, check Ford.com and read the fine print. It's very typical for a dealership website to apply every conceivable Ford rebate to their price, to attract pigeons.

This is an example of what I take with me to the dealership, and if they can't get microscopically close, I walk.
Dealer Sheet.JPG
 

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BimmerDriver

BimmerDriver

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I told him I wanted 19 because of rev match and trying to stay away from the transmission issues.
What are the transmission issues and what makes you think that they were fixed in '19?

I noticed that on one car that I looked at, it had that sticker that has domestic/foreign content, and it said that the transmission was made in China. I don't like that.
 

Kennyboy

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I had a salesman tell me the hp on a GT was 426 (460). Another at a different dealer told me the GT is faster than my Porsche Turbo S that I sold in 0 to 60. Wrong again.
 

Deleted member 35644

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...Another at a different dealer told me the GT is faster than my Porsche Turbo S that I sold in 0 to 60....
That is hilariously ignorant. I would think that anyone in the car business would have to be living under a rock to not know that the Turbo S was the drag race king until McLaren stepped up their game recently. I'm happy that he believes in the product he sells, but let's not get crazy.
 

madsedan

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I had a crap experience at my local Ford dealer this weekend as well. Had to do with trade values, frustrating.
 

Gaglug

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It's worth walking out of bad dealerships. I'm in a very small town of less than 2k people in the middle of rural MIchigan, and there still are 5 Ford dealers within 20 miles of me.

When I was buying my wife's Honda, I walked out of the closest Honda dealer when we were right ready to close. I ended up at another dealer about an hour away, and I had a fantastic experience and ended up with a much better price than I expected.

You can't generalize about one dealer being crap therefore all dealers are crap. You just have to do the legwork to sort the better ones against the ones to avoid. And most importantly, make sure you keep the dominant position in any negotiation. This includes walking out when its necessary.
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