I drove my first EV

[K4fxd]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/electric-car-drivers-buyers-remorse-140000918.html

"When Patrick Mulligan took a Nissan Leaf for a test drive, he felt like he was driving a “super car.” "

"But the problems soon came thick and fast. Like countless other EV drivers, Mr Mulligan suffered buyers’ remorse, triggered by “nightmare” charging issues and an astonishingly fast depreciation which saw its value slashed in half in under three years. "

" In the final series of Amazon’s The Grand Tour, presenter Jeremy Clarkson signed off a decades-long career as a motoring journalist by describing modern, mainly electric, cars as “s--t”. "

"But the 2030 deadline on the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles is still expected to be non-negotiable. And this means that drivers will need to get on board with EVs, whether they like it or not. "

In red is the part that 95% of all opposition to EV's comes from.
The article is a pretty good read.

I know this is UK, but coming to a US State near you, like California and others.

Sponsored

 

[sk47]

Electric Vehicles Push Legacy Automakers Into £1T Debt Crisis: Layoffs and Calls for ‘Urgent’ EV Incentives
Hello; Additional lyrics of the same tune. No ICE sales by dates certain have automakers in a money bind. The catch 22 of sorts is they will not be able to continue to sell the profitable ICE so as to be able to afford to keep making the unprofitable mandated EV's.
I could have posted a few links to layoffs in the auto industry as there are some such stories of late.
A disturbing request is that of more taxpayer (other peoples) monies incentives so as to help boost EV sales. Maybe spend some extra taxpayer monies to send those of us who remain reluctant to accept EV's to a therapist so we can be "cured".

 

[sk47]

It’s time to tax fossil fuels and shipped goods to fund climate resilience

Hello; The true believers are about to lose some of the high ground in terms of a power base. The ability to force parts of agenda programs very likely is to be lessened next month. Perhaps critically so.
At the very least the money for a transition will be in jeopardy. Some of the EV & green related start-ups have or are near going bankrupt. They were eager to grab the money a few short years when a huge pile of other people's money was made available. Those shoving the money out the door were just as eager to hand it out. If not mistaken the Rivan EV company was teetering on bankruptcy and just days ago got an over infusion of six billion of other people's money.

But of course, the "sin tax" on fossil fuels is for a good cause just as the recent and ongoing efforts to raise the cost of gasoline and diesel were for that same good cause. That we all have been paying more for food and everything else delivered by truck is merely part of the down payment. The transition will be needing much, much more.

Much of the link above has an emotional hook in the form of what about the low-lying countries who face rising sea levels. Just a couple months ago heavy rain flooded & washed out communities near me in NC & TN. I grew up in this area and over 77 years watched the flood zones along rivers become populated with homes and businesses. Too many people so some get forced into more vulnerable parts of the lands. If we skip past some inconvenient facts this sort of makes sense.
One such fact is, according to recent and likely soon to be revised climate fear dogma, even if we reach net zero carbon this day, the effects of carbon already in the air will continue for at least 50 or more years. So even if the impossible is achieved with carbon reduction those low lying parts of the globe are to be some flooded. Spare the crocodile tears please.
Another fact we are supposed to dismiss is that the climate has been changing due to natural causes for millions of years.

Sorry about the rant. I am not yet cured or is it brainwashed.

Maybe spend some extra taxpayer monies to send those of us who remain reluctant to accept EV's to a therapist so we can be "cured".

 

[K4fxd]

SK47, your ticket to the re-education camp has been printed. We will make you understand.

 

[sk47]

SK47, your ticket to the re-education camp has been printed. We will make you understand.

Hello; sadly, at some level such is not too far from the truth. Perhaps we will be in the same camp.

I have been playing with the therapy thing from a post not too long ago. reminded me of the way the Covid discussions went a while back. When their stances had holes shot in them they reverted to put downs & name calling.

 

[MartyM]

reminded me of the way the Covid discussions went a while back. When their stances had holes shot in them they reverted to put downs & name calling.

Never forget, "THEY ARE OUT TO GET YOU" Be Vigilant

 

[Skye]

In 2007, the Energy Independence and Security Act was passed by Congress and signed into law by the President.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/110th-congress/house-bill/6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Independence_and_Security_Act_of_2007

Section 136 of that act allowed the Department of Energy to establish the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Incentive Program.

https://www.energy.gov/articles/advanced-technology-vehicles-manufacturing-incentive-program

https://www.energy.gov/lpo/loan-programs-office

The program is akin to those operated by the VA, SBA, FEMA and USDA: loans or loan guarantees are offered to qualifying people and businesses.

Rivian was recently offered access to the program and secured funding of up to $6B.

https://rivian.com/newsroom/article...nal-commitment-from-doe-for-6-6b-for-ga-plant

Ford, Tesla and Nissan are a few of the companies which have received loans via the DoE program.

https://www.energy.gov/lpo/advanced-vehicles-components-projects

Loans and commitments are offered, with those to then being paid back, with interest.

https://www.energy.gov/lpo/articles/fy-2023-apsr-downloadable-pdf

From the reference above, loan losses in any given year amount to less than 1% to as much as 3%. The program has on average roughly $20B in outstanding loans at any time. Measuring loan performance of the DoE versus the VA, SBA, FEMA or USDA is beyond the scope of this post. The purpose of these programs is not to make money, but to finance new industries or technologies, enable business start-ups, secure steady production of consumer goods (USDA in-particular), allow people to buy homes that otherwise couldn't, recover from disasters, etc.

As currently run, the DoE program funds automotive plant establishment, refurbishment and upgrades. But the program also funds research into anything involving energy, from fundamental materials research to new power production.

Big picture-wise, I see two broad pathways for the current DoE loan program: 1) it can simply be written out of existence, 2) the program remains in-place, with energies (no pun intended) directed elsewhere; other sectors of the energy industry will receive loans or have access to them. I give more confidence to two. None of the loan programs I've mentioned are static. Priorities change with each Administration.

Probably more pressing to those studying EVs and considering a purchase, the industry, plants and employees, is the federal tax credit. Qualifying individuals can receive $7500 credit when purchasing an EV.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after

The incoming Administration has said they will be seeking to end this credit.

As mentioned in a previous CNBC article, the EV sector and the automotive industry is at a meaningful cross roads, not just in the US, but in Europe. Contemplating future changes and their impacts to the consumer and industry is beyond the scope of this post.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Teslas have long been able to play fart sounds over PA or as auto lock sounds, etc.

Now with the next OTA update (just days away), owners can turn any seating positions into virtual whoopy cushions!

Gave up on Ford retroactively doing that with my GT.

 

[sk47]

The incoming Administration has said they will be seeking to end this credit.

As mentioned in a previous CNBC article, the EV sector and the automotive industry is at a meaningful cross roads, not just in the US, but in Europe. Contemplating future changes and their impacts to the consumer and industry is beyond the scope of this post.

Hello; I skipped to the last bit of your post for comment. The up to $7,500 credit when purchasing an EV is one of the things which I do not favor. It is a thumb on the scale sort of thing. A small but important portion of the pro EV policies. The taking from my pocketbook to in part pay for something I do not find worthwhile. This view of mine is to a degree separate from the qualities or lack thereof of the EV.
For those who happen to have fears of climate disasters and who also somehow think the EV's are part of a solution, I can understand why they want the incentive programs to continue. I do not question the aspect of overall climate change since it is understood such climate change is known of in the past. I cannot in good faith easily dismiss natural forces of climate change.

I go back to the LED lights compared to EV's comparison. I own many LED lights now. I adopted that new technology because it proved to be superior to both incandescent and the compact fluorescent bulbs which I have owned. If I could be convinced an EV will in a significant way save the planet, I would adopt an inferior transportation EV myself.

An additional thought. The hype surrounding EV's is they are a better environmental choice. For those who believe such then it makes sense to own one. If the hype is or proves true in spite of my doubts, then EV owners are doing a bit to help the planet. From such a viewpoint they are doing good while such as me are doing bad in my ICE. They should take their owning an EV as a positive for the planet.
For every EV they own and use in place of an ICE the story is Co2 is reduced, and they are doing good. Since I and many others will be driving ICE, it will not be a total success but if every EV reduces some Co2 then there is a positive. By such logic roughly every EV is a small win by these notions as some amount less of carbon is put into the air.
I went to look at a pristine 1964 Pontiac GTO a little over a year ago. Next door to the GTO owner were two Tessla in a driveway. I learned the couple have given up all ICE and only have the two EV's. I consider them all in. They may turn out to be the good guys or not, but at least they walk the walk.

 

[Skye]

The up to $7,500 credit when purchasing an EV is one of the things which I do not favor.

Changes to the tax code are often scored by the Congressional Budget Office.

I did some general research on the cost of that credit, which follows.

In the following reference, the clean vehicle tax credit (EVs being at least part of) is expected to cost $7.3B a year over the next 10 years, for a total of $73B.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59946

"Outlays for clean vehicle tax credits are projected to be $73 billion over the 2024–2033 period. In CBO’s May 2023 projections—which were based on the cost estimate prepared by the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) when the credits were enacted in August 2022 as part of the 2022 reconciliation act—clean vehicle credits reduced tax revenues and had no effect on outlays. "

The link above is a large, detailed document. To find the specific area I referenced, it's best to search any of the key words.

To put that one credit in perspective, the following definition, first:

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57695

"The Congressional Budget Act of 1974 (the Budget Act) defines tax expenditures as “those revenue losses attributable to provisions of the Federal tax laws which allow a special exclusion, exemption, or deduction from gross income or which provide a special credit, a preferential rate of tax, or a deferral of tax liability.”

In 2021, the CBO gave an estimate as to the total amount of all tax expenditures:

"...the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the value of all tax expenditures in the individual and corporate income tax systems totaled $1.6 trillion...in fiscal year 2019. That amount was equal to nearly half of all federal revenues, exceeded all discretionary outlays, and totaled about 60 percent of all mandatory spending..., which includes spending on Social Security and Medicare."

The incoming Congress and the Administration will begin laying out their 100-day plans in the coming weeks. As the actual legislation begins being drafted, I always encourage people to go to C-SPAN, YouTube or the sources directly, for viewing of raw, unfiltered discussions. Congress posts its schedule, often days in advance. They later post recordings.

While the incoming Administration and others express interest in eliminating the clean vehicle credit, the timeline has yet to be defined. I'd expect to see representation from the automotive industry to comment and provide testimony in a hearing or some other public forum.

 

[sk47]

Changes to the tax code are often scored by the Congressional Budget Office.

I did some general research on the cost of that credit, which follows.

In the following reference, the clean vehicle tax credit (EVs being at least part of) is expected to cost $7.3B a year over the next 10 years, for a total of $73B.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59946

"Outlays for clean vehicle tax credits are projected to be $73 billion over the 2024–2033 period. In CBO’s May 2023 projections—which were based on the cost estimate prepared by the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) when the credits were enacted in August 2022 as part of the 2022 reconciliation act—clean vehicle credits reduced tax revenues and had no effect on outlays. "

The link above is a large, detailed document. To find the specific area I referenced, it's best to search any of the key words.

To put that one credit in perspective, the following definition, first:

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57695

"The Congressional Budget Act of 1974 (the Budget Act) defines tax expenditures as “those revenue losses attributable to provisions of the Federal tax laws which allow a special exclusion, exemption, or deduction from gross income or which provide a special credit, a preferential rate of tax, or a deferral of tax liability.”

In 2021, the CBO gave an estimate as to the total amount of all tax expenditures:

"...the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the value of all tax expenditures in the individual and corporate income tax systems totaled $1.6 trillion...in fiscal year 2019. That amount was equal to nearly half of all federal revenues, exceeded all discretionary outlays, and totaled about 60 percent of all mandatory spending..., which includes spending on Social Security and Medicare."

The incoming Congress and the Administration will begin laying out their 100-day plans in the coming weeks. As the actual legislation begins being drafted, I always encourage people to go to C-SPAN, YouTube or the sources directly, for viewing of raw, unfiltered discussions. Congress posts its schedule, often days in advance. They later post recordings.

While the incoming Administration and others express interest in eliminating the clean vehicle credit, the timeline has yet to be defined. I'd expect to see representation from the automotive industry to comment and provide testimony in a hearing or some other public forum.

Hello; Another interesting and information filled post. I heard something years ago which i cannot confirm. Has to do with a question of how much it costs for the government to spend a dollar. The rough idea is supposing the government earmarks one million for some sort of spending. What I heard is to raise that one million the background cost for the government may be something like four million dollars. I think the background includes running congress, the budget office, the legal teams, the tax collection agencies, environmental impact studies in some cases and the like. I get the gist of the thinking but do not know if such a thing is anywhere near close.
We all have heard of big markups of military supplies. To get a gallon of fuel to a deployed military unit the cost is many times what a civilian spends at the pump. To be fair I am not asking you to look this up.

 

[sk47]

BYD electric car charging point catches fire while plugged in | Watch
Hello; This is a bit different in that it is not the EV on fire. While I do not actually know the reason my first guesses include too small gauge wiring feeding into the charger, improper wiring job and charging too fast. Regardless reinforces my plan to put an EV charger away from my house.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

BYD electric car charging point catches fire while plugged in | Watch
Hello; This is a bit different in that it is not the EV on fire. While I do not actually know the reason my first guesses include too small gauge wiring feeding into the charger, improper wiring job and charging too fast. Regardless reinforces my plan to put an EV charger away from my house.

That OR don't use an electrician impersonator.

 

[SheepDog]

My neighbor had a Tesla Model 3 base. I asked him to take me for a ride. He threw me the keys and said "you drive". As stated, it is weird driving with no sound. He told me to nail it from a dead start. I did so and immediately took my foot off the pedal cause I thought I broke something. The massive acceleration at 0 MPH was like God hit the back of the car with a giant sledge hammer!!! He laughed and told me to do it again and keep my foot down. WOW! WOW!!!!!

Try a Model S Plaid. It'll make you choke on your tongue

 

[Bulldog9]

Never forget, "THEY ARE OUT TO GET YOU" Be Vigilant

Just because youre paranoid, doesnt mean theyre not after you!

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