Honda beats a 5.0?

[Kbreese]

I still think Honda is over-rated and you will over pay for what you get. No one will ever convince me that the Hondas of the last 20-30 years are much more reliable than Fords of the same time periods. My parents owned a few that were fixed a number of times and I had a coworker that loved Hondas. He drives a Focus - big improvement. Now - possibly in the future they will become more reliable, but they haven't been.

And I'd much rather have a Briggs engine in my mower rather than Jap junk.

You're VERY much in the minority here. Maybe you ran across a couple of lemon's but that's extremely unusual. Everyone I've known who's had Honda's raves about them. And in terms of bang for the buck, I disagree. My Girlfriends 2015 Accord Sport was an absolute bargain @ $22.5k. Looks like a $40k car and is just a great all around car. She absolutely loves it. I've previously owned a loaded 2009 V6 EX-L coupe w/nav and it was like the perfect every day car & had zero problems.

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[Falconetti]

Honda owners will also typically maintain their cars, Ive seen many a mustang owners that =Baller on a budget. Plenty of high mileage fords with great maintenance records still running like a top.

 

[Pnasty]

Honda owners will also typically maintain their cars, Ive seen many a mustang owners that =Baller on a budget. Plenty of high mileage fords with great maintenance records still running like a top.

I totally disagree with that. In my experience honda owners aren't car people so they only do maintenance when people tell them it needs to be done not regularly, generally mustang owners care about their car much, much more. I see so many 2012 Hondas with busted up paint because it hasn't been washed EVER, and dents all over from swinging the door into things.

 

[Falconetti]

I totally disagree with that. In my experience honda owners aren't car people so they only do maintenance when people tell them it needs to be done not regularly, generally mustang owners care about their car much, much more. I see so many 2012 Hondas with busted up paint because it hasn't been washed EVER, and dents all over from swinging the door into things.

Yeah Ill change my statement to the honda owners I know. I do however have some experience in auto repair and saw more maintenance on foreign over domestic, and Before anyone points out that is meaningless Ill go ahead and say it, it really doesn't mean anything.:cheers:

 

[erne75]

[ame]

 

[Tm@c1965]

The stock Accord Coupe is about as fast as the

Stock Turbo Stang. Drivers race. Both can be modded to be faster. Dump enough money in either car and the sky is the limit.

 

[Kbreese]

Stock Turbo Stang. Drivers race. Both can be modded to be faster. Dump enough money in either car and the sky is the limit.

Maybe very generally speaking, but the EB is definitely quicker, and also has more potential, and for quite a bit cheaper. Heck, only a tune on the EB and the Accord has a lot of catching up to do. But make no mistake the V6 Accords are no slouches in terms of every day cars, and are fun sleepers that can surprise a lot of people.

 

[Hack]

You're VERY much in the minority here. Maybe you ran across a couple of lemon's but that's extremely unusual. Everyone I've known who's had Honda's raves about them. And in terms of bang for the buck, I disagree. My Girlfriends 2015 Accord Sport was an absolute bargain @ $22.5k. Looks like a $40k car and is just a great all around car. She absolutely loves it. I've previously owned a loaded 2009 V6 EX-L coupe w/nav and it was like the perfect every day car & had zero problems.

To me Fords are just way better built and it's obvious just comparing some simple facts. Compare an engine with a timing belt that has to be replaced constantly to an engine (over)built using timing chains that will never wear out. And then the put this cheap belt onto an INTERFERENCE design motor! Not the best move.

 

[Husker]

To me Fords are just way better built and it's obvious just comparing some simple facts. Compare an engine with a timing belt that has to be replaced constantly to an engine (over)built using timing chains that will never wear out. And then the put this cheap belt onto an INTERFERENCE design motor! Not the best move.

:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Genxer]

To me Fords are just way better built and it's obvious just comparing some simple facts. Compare an engine with a timing belt that has to be replaced constantly to an engine (over)built using timing chains that will never wear out. And then the put this cheap belt onto an INTERFERENCE design motor! Not the best move.

Honda has been using timing chains on their 4 cyl engines since at least 2003. Not the V6. I have an Accord that has been a workhorse. 263k miles and only 1 clutch change at 243k. No timing chain yet. I've driven it hard but also keep the oil changed. Normal maintenance on these cars (most cars) is all it takes. I can say for a fact the paint is better on my Accord than on my Mustang. Wished it wasn't true.

 

[paul123]

Honda has been using timing chains on their 4 cyl engines since at least 2003. Not the V6. I have an Accord that has been a workhorse. 263k miles and only 1 clutch change at 243k. No timing chain yet. I've driven it hard but also keep the oil changed. Normal maintenance on these cars (most cars) is all it takes. I can say for a fact the paint is better on my Accord than on my Mustang. Wished it wasn't true.

the v6 is belt or chain?

I haven't owned a Honda before but they look like good engineering. If you go to Home Depot, the Honda lawnmowers almost always look better than their American competition. But priced accordingly.

I am not all that happy to see Honda and Toyota and Subaru trying to convert their fleet over to CVT. I just don't think many CVT cars will get to 263k and beyond.

 

[Kbreese]

the v6 is belt or chain?

I haven't owned a Honda before but they look like good engineering. If you go to Home Depot, the Honda lawnmowers almost always look better than their American competition. But priced accordingly.

I am not all that happy to see Honda and Toyota and Subaru trying to convert their fleet over to CVT. I just don't think many CVT cars will get to 263k and beyond.

The CVT is the one thing I worry about on my Girlfriends 2015 Accord. She puts about 25k/year on the car too. Hopefully it holds up ok when the miles start racking up.

 

[Hack]

Honda has been using timing chains on their 4 cyl engines since at least 2003.

Sounds like a good improvement.

 

[FordTechOne]

You're VERY much in the minority here. Maybe you ran across a couple of lemon's but that's extremely unusual. Everyone I've known who's had Honda's raves about them. And in terms of bang for the buck, I disagree. My Girlfriends 2015 Accord Sport was an absolute bargain @ $22.5k. Looks like a $40k car and is just a great all around car. She absolutely loves it. I've previously owned a loaded 2009 V6 EX-L coupe w/nav and it was like the perfect every day car & had zero problems.

He isn't the "minority", he's being completely realistic. Everyone in here claiming they had "no problems" with their Honda with 200K miles are simply lying. I can tell you that from experience, because it's not even possible.

The best cars Honda ever build were early 90's Accords with the 5 speed manual transmission. Specifically, 1990 to 1993. They were well assembled, the F22 engine was simple and had good torque for a 4 cylinder, and the 5 speed was smooth. Those were the best build Hondas; you could get 200,000 to 240,000 out of them IF you did all the maintenance and took care of them. Like most Asian cars from that era, however, they often rusted completely out before they even got to 200,000.

And when I say they could go 200,000, that wasn't "without any problems". Like any mechanical device, they had their issues. Problems included upper ball joint failure, front wheel bearing failure, spark plug tube lower o-rings (very involved repair, its not just the valve cover spark plug tube seals), fuel lines rotting out, exhaust rotting out (most have had 3 complete exhaust systems by 200K miles), and of course the notorious main relay failure, which leaves you stranded.

Honda was still trying to prove their worth in the U.S. back in the early 90's, so they did their best, and it paid off. Unfortunately, ignorant people still believe that the product Honda made 25 years ago is the same quality they make today, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

When Honda redesigned the Accord for 1994, that's when quality started it's steady decline, and it's been in the toilet ever since. Honda has the highest rate of transmission failure in the entire automotive industry. We're not talking slightly higher, we're talking over 1000% higher. It's so bad that even the NY Times published an article addressing the issue:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/honda-transmission-problems-seem-to-persist/?_r=0

If you look at the latest TGW reports, Ford has far surpassed Honda products. You can't even get a Hodna out of warranty without failure of the navigation unit, they are a joke. My family has owned 2 Honda products, a 2001 Odyssey and a 2007 Odyssey. The transmission failed on the 2001 at 118K miles, and the 2007 has spend more time at the dealer than it has on the road. We're talking 5K in repairs; that includes both power sliding door motors, LF wheel bearing, 3 power steering pumps, electronic rear motor mount, timing belt and water pump (real engines use timing chains, no service req'd), RF ball joint failure, both outer and inner tie rod ends, both front power window motors (twice), and 3 recalls. The torque converter is also defective, but instead of replacing it, Honda developed a PCM reflash to make the problem "less noticeable". That's all in 95,000 miles and they bought it with 44,000 miles. You call that quality? :lol:

The bottom line is that there are more Ford F-series on the road with over 200,000 miles than all Japanese vehicles combined. Anyone who puts Japanese manufacturers on a pedestal and bashes American manufacturers needs a serious dose of reality, because they are living in a fantasy world.

Sounds like a good improvement.

It's not. The failure rate is very high, especially in "performance" applications (RSX-S, Si).

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/htup-1005-honda-k-series-tensioner/

 

[Genxer]

He isn't the "minority", he's being completely realistic. Everyone in here claiming they had "no problems" with their Honda with 200K miles are simply lying. I can tell you that from experience, because it's not even possible.

The best cars Honda ever build were early 90's Accords with the 5 speed manual transmission. Specifically, 1990 to 1993. They were well assembled, the F22 engine was simple and had good torque for a 4 cylinder, and the 5 speed was smooth. Those were the best build Hondas; you could get 200,000 to 240,000 out of them IF you did all the maintenance and took care of them. Like most Asian cars from that era, however, they often rusted completely out before they even got to 200,000.

And when I say they could go 200,000, that wasn't "without any problems". Like any mechanical device, they had their issues. Problems included upper ball joint failure, front wheel bearing failure, spark plug tube lower o-rings (very involved repair, its not just the valve cover spark plug tube seals), fuel lines rotting out, exhaust rotting out (most have had 3 complete exhaust systems by 200K miles), and of course the notorious main relay failure, which leaves you stranded.

Honda was still trying to prove their worth in the U.S. back in the early 90's, so they did their best, and it paid off. Unfortunately, ignorant people still believe that the product Honda made 25 years ago is the same quality they make today, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

When Honda redesigned the Accord for 1994, that's when quality started it's steady decline, and it's been in the toilet ever since. Honda has the highest rate of transmission failure in the entire automotive industry. We're not talking slightly higher, we're talking over 1000% higher. It's so bad that even the NY Times published an article addressing the issue:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/honda-transmission-problems-seem-to-persist/?_r=0

If you look at the latest TGW reports, Ford has far surpassed Honda products. You can't even get a Hodna out of warranty without failure of the navigation unit, they are a joke. My family has owned 2 Honda products, a 2001 Odyssey and a 2007 Odyssey. The transmission failed on the 2001 at 118K miles, and the 2007 has spend more time at the dealer than it has on the road. We're talking 5K in repairs; that includes both power sliding door motors, LF wheel bearing, 3 power steering pumps, electronic rear motor mount, timing belt and water pump (real engines use timing chains, no service req'd), RF ball joint failure, both outer and inner tie rod ends, both front power window motors (twice), and 3 recalls. The torque converter is also defective, but instead of replacing it, Honda developed a PCM reflash to make the problem "less noticeable". You call that quality? :lol:

The bottom line is that there are more Ford F-series on the road with over 200,000 miles than all Japanese vehicles combined. Anyone who puts Japanese manufacturers on a pedestal and bashes American manufacturers needs a serious dose of reality, because they are living in a fantasy world.



It's not. The failure rate is very high, especially in "performance" applications (RSX-S, Si).

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/htup-1005-honda-k-series-tensioner/

The article mentioned it being a bigger problem when changing out the cams and springs. For that, a better tensioner would be a good idea due to the extra stresses. Factory cars, nah. That tensioner holds the chain insanely tight. My brother is a Honda master tech and he has never recommended taking any action with my car in regard to changing the tensioner alone. The lowdown is people do not change their oil often enough and this causes premature wear of the chain and other parts. Not changing oil causes headaches with wear and sludge. A Honda will throw a code when the chain develops too much slack. The tensioner has a finite amount of travel. My brother told me he saw a car come in running rough from a slack chain but it was still going! They had a CEL but had kept driving it. They got a new chain and was down the road. When you change the chain it would probably be prudent to replace the tensioner and worn guides while you are right there at it. Ford, Honda, Chevy, whatever... keep the oil changed, and do the maintenance, duh.

As far as auto transmissions, yes there have been issues with longevity. Honda has some work to do in that area. Get a manual Honda if you plan on driving it over 200k. I've had a few small issues but nothing unusual for a high mileage car. I've seen issues with 5th gen autos and have heard of issues with later models as well. The forums aren't blowing up over the issue but it happens. IMHO part of it is not changing ATF. The owner manuals I've read have been murky regarding ATF change interval. You should change it at 60k and then every 30k thereafter. My Toyota manual is just as bad about scheduled maintenance intervals. You have to hunt it down.

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