Hellion Sleeper Turbo - which one?

[ammoman]

I’ve been searching high and low, but I haven’t found much info on the different turbos available with the Hellion Sleeper kit. From what I’ve read, the base 62mm turbo is fine for my goals (700 hp), but it requires both water and oil lines. The Precision turbo only needs oil lines, but at least a few have had failures. Ball bearing turbos spin faster, but sounds like the price might not be worth it for my modest goals.

As I mentioned, I’m only looking for 700 hp on pump gas, but I want the most reliable setup. (Don’t want to be changing out the turbos for at least a few years, unlike some here!) Which will be the most reliable, spool quickly, and reach my goals? Unfortunately I don’t have a money tree yet, so I’m trying to keep it as economical as possible, but I want to do it right the first time.

For those who care, I’m heavily leaning towards the twin turbo instead of a Whipple for reasons I posted here:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/why-are-superchargers-the-prefer-choice-over-turbochargers-in-the-mustang-comunity.129987/page-6#post-2691988

Sponsored

 

[Stephen@lethal]

Please get ball bearing turbos. I have a Hellion kit on my 2017 and I wish I would have just paid for them out the door. Journal bearing is just a mess to deal with. You won't regret going bb, if thats the only upgrade you can do, do it. Hit me up over at Lethalperformance.com and Ill get you a killer deal to help you get them ball bearings added lol. Feel free to pick my brain about the hellion kits as well, I have a lot of experience with them.

 

[ammoman]

Feel free to pick my brain

You asked for it!

When you recommend purchasing BB turbos, do you mean the base 62mm cast turbo with BB? Do those still require oil lines AND water lines? Which brand are those? Are the turbos that need both coolant and oil more reliable than those that only need oil?

I also wonder why stepping up to the PTE CEA turbo with BB is $1,300 more than the PTE CEA turbo with journal bearings? (Especially when the base turbo is only a $500 increase to go to BB.)

How do the different sizes effect spool and power on these Gen 3 Coyotes? There are so many sizes to choose from! (55, 57, 62, 64, 66, 68, 69)

And one more kit-related question - with the base kit, what (if any) upgrades would you recommend for the fuel system to make it 100% reliable? Are the JMS FuelMax and larger injectors recommended (if so, which ones)? I won't be running E85, just 91-93 octane.

There are so many options with this kit but not many details on what works best with what!

 

[Phils15GT]

I upgraded to the precision journal bearing turbos and have had zero issues with them. I upgraded so I didn't have to mess with coolant lines.

 

[aleccesarenriquez]

You asked for it!

When you recommend purchasing BB turbos, do you mean the base 62mm cast turbo with BB? Do those still require oil lines AND water lines? Which brand are those? Are the turbos that need both coolant and oil more reliable than those that only need oil?

I also wonder why stepping up to the PTE CEA turbo with BB is $1,300 more than the PTE CEA turbo with journal bearings? (Especially when the base turbo is only a $500 increase to go to BB.)

How do the different sizes effect spool and power on these Gen 3 Coyotes? There are so many sizes to choose from! (55, 57, 62, 64, 66, 68, 69)

And one more kit-related question - with the base kit, what (if any) upgrades would you recommend for the fuel system to make it 100% reliable? Are the JMS FuelMax and larger injectors recommended (if so, which ones)? I won't be running E85, just 91-93 octane.

There are so many options with this kit but not many details on what works best with what!

I've heard of people running the precision jb hard and have no issues. Aldo's kit comes with those as the base option and I think most have had success with them. The gen 2 precisions are just well made.

If you go with Hellion's cast turbos, the BB option seems like a no brainer for $500.

I recently picked up my own kit and was in this same debate you were in. I ended up going with a practically new on3 bottom mount kit with the gen 1 precision bb turbos.

62s seem to be the right size for twins these days...although if you're really only going to stay at 700whp, the 55s might not be a bad option.

Edit: here are pics of the kit

 

[ammoman]

I upgraded to the precision journal bearing turbos and have had zero issues with them. I upgraded so I didn't have to mess with coolant lines.

Do you mean the 62mm PTE CEA Turbos? ($999 extra). Why did you decide against going with the BB?

 

[Stephen@lethal]

You asked for it!

When you recommend purchasing BB turbos, do you mean the base 62mm cast turbo with BB? Do those still require oil lines AND water lines? Which brand are those? Are the turbos that need both coolant and oil more reliable than those that only need oil?

I also wonder why stepping up to the PTE CEA turbo with BB is $1,300 more than the PTE CEA turbo with journal bearings? (Especially when the base turbo is only a $500 increase to go to BB.)

How do the different sizes effect spool and power on these Gen 3 Coyotes? There are so many sizes to choose from! (55, 57, 62, 64, 66, 68, 69)

And one more kit-related question - with the base kit, what (if any) upgrades would you recommend for the fuel system to make it 100% reliable? Are the JMS FuelMax and larger injectors recommended (if so, which ones)? I won't be running E85, just 91-93 octane.

There are so many options with this kit but not many details on what works best with what!

I'm not 100% on which brand their base 62mm but I believe it is water and oil fed still, but I would personally go with the precision 55mm, they can still make 1100ish and spool great. BB setups are pretty costly so that price is pretty spot on with what a BB upgrade would cost. The 55mm and 62s are fairly similar in power, I have 62s on my car and made 1041whp at 15lbs of boost, and can easily turn them up to 25lbs. The 55s will make similar power to that though but with a quicker spool. Im in full boost around 4500rpms on the 62s so you should see something around the 3000rpms range for the 55s.

You 100% want larger injectors and some form of pump control like the FuelMax or even a return style system on this setup. I would personally go with ID1050x's and a double pump return style system.

 

[ammoman]

You 100% want larger injectors and some form of pump control like the FuelMax or even a return style system on this setup. I would personally go with ID1050x's and a double pump return style system.

Going with the 55mm BB turbos will increases the price of the package by $2,300 (or 35%). If that is the best option, I will save up for it. (buy once, cry once!)

With my modest power goals (700 hp on 8-9 psi boost), will the FuelMax and 56 lbs Ford Racing injectors be sufficient? The ID1050x injectors and double pump system along with the upgraded 55mm BBs would simply push this system out of my budget. In that case I'd probably switch to the Whipple supercharger. I'd much prefer twin turbo for all the reasons I posted in the linked post above, but if price goes up too much, I wouldn't be able to justify it.

 

[Stephen@lethal]

Going with the 55mm BB turbos will increases the price of the package by $2,300 (or 35%). If that is the best option, I will save up for it. (buy once, cry once!)

With my modest power goals (700 hp on 8-9 psi boost), will the FuelMax and 56 lbs Ford Racing injectors be sufficient? The ID1050x injectors and double pump system along with the upgraded 55mm BBs would simply push this system out of my budget. In that case I'd probably switch to the Whipple supercharger. I'd much prefer twin turbo for all the reasons I posted in the linked post above, but if price goes up too much, I wouldn't be able to justify it.

If you're only pushing for 700hp, then you won't have an issue with the base kit, usually what happens is people buy the base and then eventually want more power and turn it up. For those type of people I recommend the precision BB setup. The 56lb and fuelmax will work for that power level.

 

[Stymee]

Going with the 55mm BB turbos will increases the price of the package by $2,300 (or 35%). If that is the best option, I will save up for it. (buy once, cry once!)

With my modest power goals (700 hp on 8-9 psi boost), will the FuelMax and 56 lbs Ford Racing injectors be sufficient? The ID1050x injectors and double pump system along with the upgraded 55mm BBs would simply push this system out of my budget. In that case I'd probably switch to the Whipple supercharger. I'd much prefer twin turbo for all the reasons I posted in the linked post above, but if price goes up too much, I wouldn't be able to justify it.

If your gonna spend the coin for this kinda setup DONT SKIMP ON THE FUEL SYSTEM

Then u have it if u ever wanna go higher on power.The 55’s should be wicked, you’ll be in boost FAST

 

[ghost5.0]

I have the base cast 62 turbos with the BB upgrade. I saw too many examples online of turbo failure with the JB precision turbos, and like you I didn't want to shell out that much $ for the BB precision turbos. I have a 2015 GT auto and I'm running FIC 1000cc injectors w/ a JMS BAP.

A few things I wish I would've known before I bought this kit:
1. Realize that the car will smell like fuel inside and out (bad at red lights). The wastegates sit right below the seats, this may have something to do with that (and obviously there's no cats so inherently it will smell more)
2. The sound is much different than the normal hellion eliminator kit. Again, this is because the waste gates dump to the external atmosphere when you get into boost, and let me tell you, I was NOT prepared for this type of sound. It is LOUD. Like straight from the engine to turbo and out into the air loud. Not sure if I really like it much to be honest unfortunately.
3. Consider getting a torque converter, the car is not any quicker from a stop until around 60mph...

All in all, if I had to do it over again, I think I'd stick with the base 62 BB turbos, but get a torque converter and have the waste gate dumps re-routed into the exhaust. Let me know if you have any questions about the kit.

Edit: I see you drive a 2018 manual, so this will be a bit different for you.

 

[ammoman]

If you're only pushing for 700hp, then you won't have an issue with the base kit, usually what happens is people buy the base and then eventually want more power and turn it up. For those type of people I recommend the precision BB setup. The 56lb and fuelmax will work for that power level.

This is my daily driver not a dedicated track car, so I'm not looking to set records with it. Reliability is a big concern, which is why if the BB turbos will be more reliable in the long run, I am willing to save a little longer to get them.

I usually over engineer everything and end up spending way more time and money than I need to. (I think my kid's tree house is more sturdy than our actual house!) Because of that tendency, part of me wants to go all in and get the best of everything! But if I start going too crazy, the wife will simply say 'No', and then nothing will happen. So if the 56lb injectors and fuelmax will work well, I will probably go that route.

And I'm wondering if the quicker spool on the 55mm might be worth it. Around town I usually shift between 2,000 and 3,000. If the boost kicks in around 3,500, that might be perfect!

 

[ammoman]

have the waste gate dumps re-routed into the exhaust.

Thanks for your feedback! How many miles have you been running the base 62mm BB turbos? I hadn't thought much about the waste gates, since all turbo vehicles I've own and owned have those in the engine compartment. Is re-routing the waste gate dump something easy to do? I don't think I've seen anyone mention that before...

 

[Stephen@lethal]

This is my daily driver not a dedicated track car, so I'm not looking to set records with it. Reliability is a big concern, which is why if the BB turbos will be more reliable in the long run, I am willing to save a little longer to get them.

I usually over engineer everything and end up spending way more time and money than I need to. (I think my kid's tree house is more sturdy than our actual house!) Because of that tendency, part of me wants to go all in and get the best of everything! But if I start going too crazy, the wife will simply say 'No', and then nothing will happen. So if the 56lb injectors and fuelmax will work well, I will probably go that route.

And I'm wondering if the quicker spool on the 55mm might be worth it. Around town I usually shift between 2,000 and 3,000. If the boost kicks in around 3,500, that might be perfect!

The 55s will hands down be the better option for the low end grunt for around town driving.

 

[ammoman]

The 55s will hands down be the better option for the low end grunt for around town driving.

Sounds like a plan! Regarding the 55s, is it worth the extra $1,300 (on top of the $999) to go with BB? Or will the journal bearing 55s be good enough for me?

Sponsored