Handling Upgrade

[PC_GUARD]

Ultralites look like they have the same rates as the min drops but a much larger drop. This makes me think min drops could still be a solid option.

Do you think your lack of SO-friendly suspension is mainly from the springs, or NVH from the roll center / bearings?

The dampers truly control the ride (overall) the springs are the initial feel/feedback. I keep the car steering weight in sport, I prefer the weighted feel except on a long trip ill go to normal and that has more to do with being twitchy with beat up roads get old lol

The steeda roll center kit and bumpsteer made my car turn in like a go-kart without any harshness and even know if you let go of the wheel you will see it "bumping around" there is no feeling of it in the wheel. But if youre pushing it through a roundabout or hard turn you feel what the wheel is doing. I'd recommend this to anyone.

I have no NVH from anything ive done.


I should add in the rear (i had forgotten)

I have a 2 point brace tying in the cowl and strut tower brace (i dont know if it does anything)

I also have the all the bmr bracing in the rear, only thing i have left before bars will be camber lockout and camber arms.

Even with the rear locked down and the cradle has zero slop, i have no noise at all.

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[MrMike]

The dampers truly control the ride (overall) the springs are the initial feel/feedback. I keep the car steering weight in sport, I prefer the weighted feel except on a long trip ill go to normal and that has more to do with being twitchy with beat up roads get old lol

The steeda roll center kit and bumpsteer made my car turn in like a go-kart without any harshness and even know if you let go of the wheel you will see it "bumping around" there is no feeling of it in the wheel. But if youre pushing it through a roundabout or hard turn you feel what the wheel is doing. I'd recommend this to anyone.

I have no NVH from anything ive done.


I should add in the rear (i had forgotten)

I have a 2 point brace tying in the cowl and strut tower brace (i dont know if it does anything)

I also have the all the bmr bracing in the rear, only thing i have left before bars will be camber lockout and camber arms.

Even with the rear locked down and the cradle has zero slop, i have no noise at all.

That sounds great! If you're happy with all the Steeda hardware (incl springs) perhaps they belong on the list also.

 

[PC_GUARD]

That sounds great! If you're happy with all the Steeda hardware (incl springs) perhaps they belong on the list also.

I daily my car and outside of paying attention to 45 speed bumps weird driveways etc, I wouldnt have it any other way.

The roads in NW Fl are absolute beaten trash, DEEP caverns grooved into the road like RR tracks and generally awful. My car is smooth doesnt beat me up doesnt pound the car. The only "NVH" that has increased is tire noise over bridge abutment or any horizontal patch you will hear it but im not upset by it or cringe.. Its just road feedback and some of it could be tires. This setup is excellent.

I think when i got my car it had min drops or steeda sports? Either way they were fine-ish but the dampers were PP oe and nothing to write home about. My car felt like a baby carriage in a lot of ways. The accel squat and nose diving braking was annoying. This cleared up the rear squat 100% and 90% of the nose dive, and still runs smooth. You will notice and so will anyone who knows anything about cars it is more sporty feeling. A buddy of mine never been in a s550 got in and said "this is like the m5 on track"

The reason i havent gone after bars yet is, I havent needed them, at the same token I prefer to get everything how I want, then tweak with bars, which can change the ride and feel some, especially with adjustable links which are a good idea on a dropped car.

 

[MrMike]

I daily my car and outside of paying attention to 45 speed bumps weird driveways etc, I wouldnt have it any other way.

The roads in NW Fl are absolute beaten trash, DEEP caverns grooved into the road like RR tracks and generally awful. My car is smooth doesnt beat me up doesnt pound the car. The only "NVH" that has increased is tire noise over bridge abutment or any horizontal patch you will hear it but im not upset by it or cringe.. Its just road feedback and some of it could be tires. This setup is excellent.

I think when i got my car it had min drops or steeda sports? Either way they were fine-ish but the dampers were PP oe and nothing to write home about. My car felt like a baby carriage in a lot of ways. The accel squat and nose diving braking was annoying. This cleared up the rear squat 100% and 90% of the nose dive, and still runs smooth. You will notice and so will anyone who knows anything about cars it is more sporty feeling. A buddy of mine never been in a s550 got in and said "this is like the m5 on track"

The reason i havent gone after bars yet is, I havent needed them, at the same token I prefer to get everything how I want, then tweak with bars, which can change the ride and feel some, especially with adjustable links which are a good idea on a dropped car.

Roads here really aren't that bad. My only legit concerns are speed bumps going into work and one intersection with a big dip on one side.

I don't care about extra noise from tires -- that's just life with a performance car IMO lol.

I've yet to read a truly positive review about the OE dampers. Kinda makes me wonder how PP springs w/FP track dampers would be. I'm curious if those springs would've been better with a better set of dampers, but I totally get wanting to swap everything out.

Yep.. I want to tone down the amount of roll similar to what you're describing.

That's a pretty great review.

Regarding sway bars, a lot of people keep the PP rear sway bar and just swap the front. Seems to be extremely common to just pop in the GT350/R front bar and leave the rear alone. Also seems like PP rear bar is a very cheap mod.

 

[PC_GUARD]

Roads here really aren't that bad. My only legit concerns are speed bumps going into work and one intersection with a big dip on one side.

I don't care about extra noise from tires -- that's just life with a performance car IMO lol.

I've yet to read a truly positive review about the OE dampers. Kinda makes me wonder how PP springs w/FP track dampers would be. I'm curious if those springs would've been better with a better set of dampers, but I totally get wanting to swap everything out.

Yep.. I want to tone down the amount of roll similar to what you're describing.

That's a pretty great review.

Regarding sway bars, a lot of people keep the PP rear sway bar and just swap the front. Seems to be extremely common to just pop in the GT350/R front bar and leave the rear alone. Also seems like PP rear bar is a very cheap mod.

The speed bump thing and dip isnt as bad if you had a vette, im just hyper vigilant, because ive drive cars that would be costly to ground, so its just a habit.


Ill probably do the R bar, but with adjustable links and poly bushings and steeda mounts. I MAY change the shock mounts at some point, but im a tinkerer and a general gearhead that cant help but mess with stuff lol

 

[TeeLew]

Got it. So the bare minimum you would do personally is the old GT350R front / SP082 rear set based on your preference for a firm front.

I think that combo would be a nice improvement in performance over stock with a pretty minimal ride compromise. In that scenario, you've brought the front rate up high enough that it doesn't want to stand on it's nose while braking and you'll keep the front of the car more flat on turn-in (a stiffer front anti-roll bar would help here down the road, too). You've lowered the car, but the rear has dropped the same amount as the front, so you haven't put a bunch of rake in the car. You haven't lowered the car so much that you'll run into travel issues.

The question now is what shocks are you running with them? That will have as big of an influence on the ride and handling as the springs.

 

[TeeLew]

The question now is what shocks are you running with them? That will have as big of an influence on the ride and handling as the springs.

Lol, PC beat me to shocks...

Also, I like the chassis stiffening stuff that he's done. That 100% tightens the car up and there is zero NVH from any of it. Front cowl, lower K and rear cradle are all stiffness gains without added noise. If anything, they reduce body noise, but they add weight.

 

[MrMike]

I think that combo would be a nice improvement in performance over stock with a pretty minimal ride compromise. In that scenario, you've brought the front rate up high enough that it doesn't want to stand on it's nose while braking and you'll keep the front of the car more flat on turn-in (a stiffer front anti-roll bar would help here down the road, too). You've lowered the car, but the rear has dropped the same amount as the front, so you haven't put a bunch of rake in the car. You haven't lowered the car so much that you'll run into travel issues.

The question now is what shocks are you running with them? That will have as big of an influence on the ride and handling as the springs.

FP Track Dampers, still haven't steered away from them!

The only other ones I've talk to people about are Steeda Pro-active, which if I'm considering might as well just get their min drops.

 

[MrMike]

The speed bump thing and dip isnt as bad if you had a vette, im just hyper vigilant, because ive drive cars that would be costly to ground, so its just a habit.


Ill probably do the R bar, but with adjustable links and poly bushings and steeda mounts. I MAY change the shock mounts at some point, but im a tinkerer and a general gearhead that cant help but mess with stuff lol

Yep! Corvettes are REAL low IMO.

I totally get tinkering. It's fun! Fortunately rear sway is easy to change based on videos. Front seems just ok lol.

 

[TeeLew]

FP Track Dampers, still haven't steered away from them!

The only other ones I've talk to people about are Steeda Pro-active, which if I'm considering might as well just get their min drops.

I think those are generally considered a good choice.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Hell no to the pro-actives. They’re a shock designed to “do it all”, with “no compromises”, which is snake oil. They’re not designed for handling, they’re designed to placate weenies with sensitive butts and no honest priority for handling.

do the bilsteins or FP track dampers to get a good monotube which will snooth out small road noise but still perform ok with mildly stiffer springs or jump to an actual rebound adjustable so you cand dial the stiffness to taste (with very minor consessions to the monotubes for buttery comfort).

as far as springs go, theres lots of good advice here. I think the OP’s plan for GT350 springs wasnt a bad one. Some of TeeLew’s other suggestions are good too. Theres a limit to how stiff on the front you can go with the off the shelf shock options, bur yes the car responds well to kinda crazy high front spring rates without turning into an understeering mess. I like a stiffer rear-to-front ratio than TeeLew, but then again, I’m an autocrosser so I need rotate to quickly hit slip angles which would pucker your sphincter on the street.

springs are pretty cheap. I don’t be scared to experiment. There isn’t a right answer for a street car. My other main point here is to consider getting something adj in the system, either at least an adj front bar or adjustable shocks or both. Its easy to wax philosophical about how a given combo will handle, but there is a lot of personal preference in play here and having some adjustability will give you some easy options to play with after all the parts are on the car.

 

[TeeLew]

do the bilsteins or FP track dampers to get a good monotube which will snooth out small road noise but still perform ok with mildly stiffer springs

as far as springs go, theres lots of good advice here. I think the OP’s plan for GT350 springs wasnt a bad one. Some of TeeLew’s other suggestions are good too. Theres a limit to how stiff on the front you can go with the off the shelf shock options, bur yes the car responds well to kinda crazy high front spring rates without turning into an understeering mess. I like a stiffer rear-to-front ratio than TeeLew, but then again, I’m an autocrosser so I need rotate to quickly hit slip angles which would pucker your sphincter on the street.

springs are pretty cheap. I don’t be scared to experiment. There isn’t a right answer for a street car.

If I'm taking a stab at dampers and looking for a good bang/buck option, I usually go with Bilstein. I haven't actually run them, so I hesitate to recommend them, but I've never had them be a *bad* option.

I don't have any problem sliding around. I just can't do it *and* turn good times. So it's a good point to mention that my recommendations will revolve around my preferences and I don't like loose. I know there are really great running guys that run significantly stiffer in the back. It just doesn't work for me. Trying different combos isn't that much work and it's cool to feel what a rate change really feels like.

 

[MrMike]

Hell no to the pro-actives. They’re a shock designed to “do it all”, with “no compromises”, which is snake oil. They’re not designed for handling, they’re designed to placate weenies with sensitive butts and no honest priority for handling.

do the bilsteins or FP track dampers to get a good monotube which will snooth out small road noise but still perform ok with mildly stiffer springs or jump to an actual rebound adjustable so you cand dial the stiffness to taste (with very minor consessions to the monotubes for buttery comfort).

as far as springs go, theres lots of good advice here. I think the OP’s plan for GT350 springs wasnt a bad one. Some of TeeLew’s other suggestions are good too. Theres a limit to how stiff on the front you can go with the off the shelf shock options, bur yes the car responds well to kinda crazy high front spring rates without turning into an understeering mess. I like a stiffer rear-to-front ratio than TeeLew, but then again, I’m an autocrosser so I need rotate to quickly hit slip angles which would pucker your sphincter on the street.

springs are pretty cheap. I don’t be scared to experiment. There isn’t a right answer for a street car. My other main point here is to consider getting something adj in the system, either at least an adj front bar or adjustable shocks or both. Its easy to wax philosophical about how a given combo will handle, but there is a lot of personal preference in play here and having some adjustability will give you some easy options to play with after all the parts are on the car.

Thanks, this is a good reply from someone I know is more experienced than I am.

I am still leaning towards the standard GT350 springs because I want the least amount of drop possible. I also believe that the progressive GT350 rear springs will result in a smooth highway ride.

I see what you're getting at with the suggestion for adjustability. I will either go with adjustable FP track sway bars, or get multiple OEM sway bars.

Regarding the dampers, I am still leaning towards the FP track dampers. Are they that harsh that you'd recommend adjustable dampers over them?

 

[NightmareMoon]

Thanks, this is a good reply from someone I know is more experienced than I am.

I am still leaning towards the standard GT350 springs because I want the least amount of drop possible. I also believe that the progressive GT350 rear springs will result in a smooth highway ride.

I see what you're getting at with the suggestion for adjustability. I will either go with adjustable FP track sway bars, or get multiple OEM sway bars.

Regarding the dampers, I am still leaning towards the FP track dampers. Are they that harsh that you'd recommend adjustable dampers over them?

no, kinda the opposite. The FP shocks should be nice. The cheap adjustables are not quite as smooth as the FP shocks (but its close). the advantage of adjustables is they can go stiffer on demand (with 5 min of turning knobs) when you want that. Doesnt sound like you’re ready for that tho.

 

[accel]

The other side of the conversation is just personal preference. I know I prefer a relatively pushy car, so I tend to tune in that direction. It's not an arbitrary choice; it's been a successful approach for me in the past and that's what I shoot for now.

I found the chassis balance on the PP package to have excessive oversteer pretty much everywhere. It's my opinion that this is why we see so many crashed Mustangs. On the limit in stock form, the rear of the car is not happy.

By PP do you mean PP1 or PP2?

From my personal experience (not just mustangs) the oversteer might be the consequence of staggered setup and not being ab!le to rotate fronts vs rears (i.e. - mainta7n equivalent grip levels)

One has some inspired driving on a new set of tires and the car feeds back confidence. Then a year later another inspired driving experience with rears worn more that fronts might send back fairly unexpected results.

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