Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[thehunterooo]

ADM for sure but giveen GT350 price point you really think GT500 will start any lower than $68-72kbase? It just seems unlikely to price close to the 350 in which case its going to be a good deal more than a ZL1.

Hard to tell since we don't really know a whole lot about the car. I haven't really kept up with it myself. The GT500 section should have some threads about possible pricing but it is really just guessing at this point. Shoot even ADMs can vary a ton considering how many Ford makes per year, how long its in production etc.

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[2018OFPP1?2]

Crazy thread. So much angst on both sides. Coming from german cars, I never would have considered a Mustang or Camaro until this generation except for the GT500 or ZL1.

Both companies have built a great crop of cars this generation. I've been away from "fun cars" for about 2 years but as I look to get back into one spring 2019, I've been strongly considering a Vette, Stang or Camaro.I've more or less dropped the vette from the running.

I prefer the looks of the stang but the reality is I'll likely get into a camaro because they don't offer a car that fits what I want - Zl1 type power. The GT350 might be one of my favorite looking cars out there right now but for the price I have a hard time justifying it over a ZL1 or even a SS 1LE/GT PP. Not enough difference. GT500 is of course coming but I figure we'll be lucky to see that for under $75k, especially anytime soon.

So it comes down for me to a loaded GT or splurg another 14-15k and get a good deal more power. The differences between the SS and GT (since refresh) are so minor that it's a preference of looks.

Just wish Ford gave an option between the GT and GT500 - as nice looking as the GT350 is, not sure it's worth the difference unless you track A LOT.

Anyway both great cars but if you don't have a preference, to me it just comes down to the price points where vary across both brands depending on what you want.

If you want ZL1 type power, why not a GT/PP/2 + Whipple?

 

[Mike00]

If you want ZL1 type power, why not a GT/PP/2 + Whipple?

Not really thrilled with the idea of spending $50k and immediately voiding the powertrain warranty. It's something I've considered but to me it just says theres a gap in the trims.

I definitely think the mustang is the better looking car and since the refresh every bit as close in performance. I just wish the GT500 would be price competitively - even if we can find an MSRP level car I don't expect it will be comparable.

 

[Hack]

ZL1 would be a good choice, or for less money they sell Mustangs with a blower and a warranty. I think they cost around $42,000 brand new.

There have been a lot of Camaro guys on this forum using the supercar line. Personally for me that joke doesn't get old, because too many of the Camaro fans seem to actually believe it.

 

[4V Mayhem]

ADM for sure but giveen GT350 price point you really think GT500 will start any lower than $68-72kbase? It just seems unlikely to price close to the 350 in which case its going to be a good deal more than a ZL1.

I can see it being around $65K to $70K but not much higher if at all. ADMs will bring it up. If it is any than that then I think it will move out of what most people are willing to spend for a Mustang. But then again some were spending in the $90K range for the GT350R. So who knows.

ZL1 would be a good choice, or for less money they sell Mustangs with a blower and a warranty. I think they cost around $42,000 brand new.

There have been a lot of Camaro guys on this forum using the supercar line. Personally for me that joke doesn't get old, because too many of the Camaro fans seem to actually believe it.

Maybe if you drove one you'd understand.

I don't think it is a supercar. I think it is as close to supercar level performance as you can get for the price. Either way it doesn't matter one bit to me. Whether you think it is or isn't it still doesn't take away from how well it performs and how dang fast that car is.

 

[garagelogic]

If you're that concerned with aspects of someone's personal life then go and ask them. Why sit here gossiping and slinging mud like a jealous 13 year old girl would do? Look at this thread. It's becoming just a bunch of grown men copying and pasting what other people are saying and hating on someone else for what they have and just talking trash about the same people.

And on C6:

It's funny how you pay soo much attention to this thread and will criticize everything you disagree with. But when I asked you if the morons over on M6G are still copying and pasting stuff from here like a bunch of 12 year old girls you acted like you didn't know. Yet word has it you're over on that site every day and are probably on the same threads where they're doing it, lol.

Mike, you’re not fooling anyone.

 

[activeGT]

Maybe if you drove one you'd understand.

I don't think it is a supercar. I think it is as close to supercar level performance as you can get for the price. Either way it doesn't matter one bit to me. Whether you think it is or isn't it still doesn't take away from how well it performs and how dang fast that car is.

I owned one for 10 months. The car is SICK. I sold it before I ended up in jail. You can not drive this car on the highway without pushing it to the limit.

 

[w3rkn]

Head's up Display and the gear (manual) displayed on the dash are two I miss. And an odd one is a manual seat back adjustment? Really? I have a new SuperDuty and it even has full electric. Honestly the seats are almost the same so it could have been done.

A HUD showing gears is only needed for automatics, that have sequential up and down paddles, not manuals.

Not sure if you were joking, but why would ANYONE need a heads up display showing them where their hand is..? :shrug:

 

[martinjlm]

A number of third party reviewers have stated that some Camaro models (mainly ZL1, but in some cases SS, 1SS 1LE) are putting in acceleration and track numbers that match the performance of much more expensive supercars at significantly lower price. Rather than give credit where credit is due, some on this site prefer to say Camaro only resembles supercars when it comes to sales volume. :shrug:

ZL1 would be a good choice, or for less money they sell Mustangs with a blower and a warranty. I think they cost around $42,000 brand new.

There have been a lot of Camaro guys on this forum using the supercar line. Personally for me that joke doesn't get old, because too many of the Camaro fans seem to actually believe it.

No one disputes its a fast car but trying to make it sound like low sales is a good thing is silly. I thought the Camaro would have sold quite a bit more over the last three months I really don't see why sales are where they are.

I guess I’m not really seeing anyone trying to interpret low sales as being an indication of being a “supercar” other than as a joke. If there is one or two over-the-top fanboys making that comparison, that is by no means representative of what the vast majority on Camaro6 think of the car. It’s a fast toy. Period. A McLaren 570s is a supercar. An Aventador is a supercar. A Ferrari 488 is a supercar. A ZL1 is a Camaro that can hang close with those cars at a much lower price, but is NOT a supercar. I think most people get that.

 

[Hack]

Maybe if you drove one you'd understand.

I don't think it is a supercar. I think it is as close to supercar level performance as you can get for the price. Either way it doesn't matter one bit to me. Whether you think it is or isn't it still doesn't take away from how well it performs and how dang fast that car is.

I've driven Camaros. They are good cars. I happen to enjoy driving my Ford quite a bit more.

I guess I’m not really seeing anyone trying to interpret low sales as being an indication of being a “supercar” other than as a joke. If there is one or two over-the-top fanboys making that comparison, that is by no means representative of what the vast majority on Camaro6 think of the car. It’s a fast toy. Period. A McLaren 570s is a supercar. An Aventador is a supercar. A Ferrari 488 is a supercar. A ZL1 is a Camaro that can hang close with those cars at a much lower price, but is NOT a supercar. I think most people get that.

The performance/cost curve is exponential, always has been. Meaning as you get higher and higher performance, the cost increases more quickly than performance does. And the half life of automotive technology is very short. After just a few years relatively inexpensive cars can sometimes surpass performance that was associated with super cars only a few years earlier. But there's a lot more to super car in my opinion than just raw speed. There's also mystique and rarity - uniqueness even. Cars that can easily be ordered at your local Ford or Chevy dealer don't qualify.

I agree that Mustang, Corvette and Camaro aren't supercars like the Ford GT, for instance.

 

[activeGT]

A HUD showing gears is only needed for automatics, that have sequential up and down paddles, not manuals.

Not sure if you were joking, but why would ANYONE need a heads up display showing them where their hand is..? :shrug:

I am clueless what this even means. Are you familiar with the head's up display in the Vette? This is the same. Changeable info. This was on my ZL1. 10 speed. It also had a PDR. Why in the world would ANYBODY want to have that, right?



I had a '16 SS manual. It had a display in the instrument pod showing the gears.

 

[ALUSA]

I've driven Camaros. They are good cars. I happen to enjoy driving my Ford quite a bit more.



The performance/cost curve is exponential, always has been. Meaning as you get higher and higher performance, the cost increases more quickly than performance does. And the half life of automotive technology is very short. After just a few years relatively inexpensive cars can sometimes surpass performance that was associated with super cars only a few years earlier. But there's a lot more to super car in my opinion than just raw speed. There's also mystique and rarity - uniqueness even. Cars that can easily be ordered at your local Ford or Chevy dealer don't qualify.

I agree that Mustang, Corvette and Camaro aren't supercars like the Ford GT, for instance.

If Ford GT is a supercar, then what is a Corvette ZR1?

 

[garagelogic]

If Ford GT is a supercar, then what is a Corvette ZR1?

A Corvette trim level?

 

[millhouse]

If Ford GT is a supercar, then what is a Corvette ZR1?

Not a supercar!

Supercar performance, sure. In the end, it's still a Corvette...and as long as it has a base version attainable by blue collard workers, it will never be in the same class as other supercars.

 

[garagelogic]

...attainable by blue collard workers...

And here I thought collards were green

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