Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[Snagged]

how is adm irrelevant, no one is buying that car for msrp and i guess the hellcat would destroy them all around the track since it has more power right, power means nothing without being able to put it down. and ya ill bet a 1le will beat or at least tie a gt350. And your 100% right I haven't had a car on a track and never claimed to have doesn't mean i cant compare cars, if that's the case guessing half the people here couldnt.

I wouldn't use Hellcats as a comparison. They are land boats with I believe a pretty bad chassis on top of that.

Oh my.... let's go through this one at a time:
1. They say the same thing about the GT350... hell, the GT350 beat out plenty of supercars (and the SS 1LE, I might add) to come in second for best driver's car
2. only thing special is the motor? Come on now, you can't be serious
3. Please explain how GM has a "better chassis", I've asked countless Chebby guys this, and not a single one has been able to answer me.
4. Sure, the Chevy best it (by .4 seconds) despite having over 120 more HP, and you're going to tell me that it's because of "superior chassis and suspension"? Give me a break
5. ZL1 is only $1000 less than a GT350R. So, you're telling me that they should compare a $70k car to a $60k car just so one can have a clear advantage? Oh yeah, totally makes sense :lol:
6. Yes, ford does daily liveability better, and is up to par on just about everything else. I see no problem there whatsoever

Great post and sums things up quite nicely.

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[martinjlm]

I had a 2015 mustang GT/PP and now i have a 2017 SS/1LE. The mustang is cheaper overall, going by MSRP. Chevy cannot sell the Camaro, look at their commercials, all about JDPower awards nothing specific to Camaro. No specific advertising/marketing for the Camaro at all. The Challenger probably sells better than the camaro honestly. Numbers on paper the Camaro is better and more expensive.(maybe not anymore since the 2018 are 50k now). The average person is not buying a car for numbers, and will most likely buy a mustang or challenger over the camaro.

After having the Camaro for a year now, i can say the mustang was more comfortable for daily driving. The Camaro gets better MPG though, all comparison stock for stock. Mustang was quieter, i had a corsa extreme put on. Miss the Corsa extreme a little bit. The tremec transmission is noticeably better than the MT-82. I barely use the camaro to its limits in daily driving. I have maybe used it close to its limits maybe three times in a year.

Honestly if i could do it over, id probably buy another mustang and keep the difference in money. The only reason i bought the camaro is someone totaled my mustang and wanted to try something different. Overall experience, I can say the camaro is better on paper but even then barely better. Not worth the price difference of 2015 GT/PP to 1LE. I got the Mustang got 33k @ 0% and 1LE for 41k.

Nice post. When people are considering these types of cars, they are typically focused on the 3-Ps, Performance, Practicality, and Price. People who lean heavily towards Performance and are willing to spend more $$ will lean Camaro. People who lean heavily towards performance but don't think Camaro performance warrants a $3 - 5k premium will lean Mustang. People looking for a better balance of Performance and Practicality will lean Mustang. This explains why overall sales is tipped more towards Mustang.

Now that the new Mustang is priced almost on par with Camaro and performance has improved, but is still not quite on par with Camaro, the tipping point will be Practicality versus marginal Performance advantage.

When I got my Camaro Fifty SS Convertible, it stickered at $55,395. A similarly equipped 2017 Mustang GT PP1 Convertible would have stickered around $48 - 49K (at least the way I was able to build it on the Ford.com site). The Camaro clearly wins on performance and has features you can't get on Mustang, so that pumped the price difference up a bit. But buyers will likely decide that $6 - 7k price difference is a lot to pay for the performance difference. I haven't checked, but I would expect that more GT convertibles were sold than SS convertibles.

Now, back to 2018. When I was at the North American International Auto Show, Ford had a yellow GT Convertible with PP1 on the floor options pretty close to my car. That car stickered at over $56k. Performance should be a lot closer to the performance of my Camaro, but there are still features I have that the Mustang does not (HUD, power top with hard tonneau cover, Brembo on all four corners). Yet the Mustang Vert is priced higher. This will bring customer choice down to Practicality and styling will also become more important. Since both are convertibles, Mustang's visibility advantage pretty much goes away. Both trunks are an afterthought. I expect Camaro SS Convertible sales and Mustang GT Convertible sales will be pretty darn close.

 

[Hack]

Camaro 50. :lol:

 

[martinjlm]

Camaro 50. :lol:

Guess I am not getting the humor :shrug:

 

[Hack]

Guess I am not getting the humor :shrug:

In my opinion it's pretty lame of GM to put 50 on the Camaro when they just started making it in 2010.

 

[martinjlm]

In my opinion it's pretty lame of GM to put 50 on the Camaro when they just started making it in 2010.

OK. Thanks. Guess I'll take it back to the dealer then.

 

[02gtnh]

In my opinion it's pretty lame of GM to put 50 on the Camaro when they just started making it in 2010.

It’s 50th anniversary, not 50 years of continuous models.

 

[Chameleon]

I think it's pretty easy to understand why the Mustang outsold Camaro and Challenger: It's by a few thousand dollars the cheapest car (pre-fl), it has the best practical value (especially in terms of visibility) and the design is the most classy/european and least muscle-car one.

Without doubt the Camaro is the best sportscar of the three, but it's clearly the least pratical too. And most people surely prefer having a huge trunk and rearseat space than having a better handling and performance right from the factory.

:doh::doh::doh:

 

[bootlegger]

Nice post. When people are considering these types of cars, they are typically focused on the 3-Ps, Performance, Practicality, and Price. People who lean heavily towards Performance and are willing to spend more $$ will lean Camaro. People who lean heavily towards performance but don't think Camaro performance warrants a $3 - 5k premium will lean Mustang. People looking for a better balance of Performance and Practicality will lean Mustang. This explains why overall sales is tipped more towards Mustang.

Now that the new Mustang is priced almost on par with Camaro and performance has improved, but is still not quite on par with Camaro, the tipping point will be Practicality versus marginal Performance advantage.

When I got my Camaro Fifty SS Convertible, it stickered at $55,395. A similarly equipped 2017 Mustang GT PP1 Convertible would have stickered around $48 - 49K (at least the way I was able to build it on the Ford.com site). The Camaro clearly wins on performance and has features you can't get on Mustang, so that pumped the price difference up a bit. But buyers will likely decide that $6 - 7k price difference is a lot to pay for the performance difference. I haven't checked, but I would expect that more GT convertibles were sold than SS convertibles.

Now, back to 2018. When I was at the North American International Auto Show, Ford had a yellow GT Convertible with PP1 on the floor options pretty close to my car. That car stickered at over $56k. Performance should be a lot closer to the performance of my Camaro, but there are still features I have that the Mustang does not (HUD, power top with hard tonneau cover, Brembo on all four corners). Yet the Mustang Vert is priced higher. This will bring customer choice down to Practicality and styling will also become more important. Since both are convertibles, Mustang's visibility advantage pretty much goes away. Both trunks are an afterthought. I expect Camaro SS Convertible sales and Mustang GT Convertible sales will be pretty darn close.

You have a 1LE convertible?

 

[w3rkn]

Nice post. When people are considering these types of cars, they are typically focused on the 3-Ps, Performance, Practicality, and Price. People who lean heavily towards Performance and are willing to spend more $$ will lean Camaro. People who lean heavily towards performance but don't think Camaro performance warrants a $3 - 5k premium will lean Mustang. People looking for a better balance of Performance and Practicality will lean Mustang. This explains why overall sales is tipped more towards Mustang.

Now that the new Mustang is priced almost on par with Camaro and performance has improved, but is still not quite on par with Camaro, the tipping point will be Practicality versus marginal Performance advantage.

When I got my Camaro Fifty SS Convertible, it stickered at $55,395. A similarly equipped 2017 Mustang GT PP1 Convertible would have stickered around $48 - 49K (at least the way I was able to build it on the Ford.com site). The Camaro clearly wins on performance and has features you can't get on Mustang, so that pumped the price difference up a bit. But buyers will likely decide that $6 - 7k price difference is a lot to pay for the performance difference. I haven't checked, but I would expect that more GT convertibles were sold than SS convertibles.

Now, back to 2018. When I was at the North American International Auto Show, Ford had a yellow GT Convertible with PP1 on the floor options pretty close to my car. That car stickered at over $56k. Performance should be a lot closer to the performance of my Camaro, but there are still features I have that the Mustang does not (HUD, power top with hard tonneau cover, Brembo on all four corners). Yet the Mustang Vert is priced higher. This will bring customer choice down to Practicality and styling will also become more important. Since both are convertibles, Mustang's visibility advantage pretty much goes away. Both trunks are an afterthought. I expect Camaro SS Convertible sales and Mustang GT Convertible sales will be pretty darn close.

Understand, that your rational and points only seem rational for your mixed needs. Not to many people shop top-performance, then chose a convertible...


The Mustang cost more, because it is a more sophisticated design and upscale. The Camaro is the little brother trying to brute about.

 

[thehunterooo]

One, the 6th gen to many of the 5th gen look to close, thus didn’t feel the need to upgrade.
Two, the ATP on the Camaro was about $5000 more then the Mustang, so the Mustang sold much cheaper so more affordable to many.
Three, all mustang GT comes with all season tires unless you get the PP. No SS has all season tires, thus narrows buyers.
2016 and 2017 sales of both were about even retail wise to guys like you and me off the streets, so the Camaro is doing just as good as the mustang. We will see how 2018 will go with Mustang higher price.:cheers:

Lol that still doesn’t answer what I asked. There is no way the Camaro should have such low numbers if the car is that good. Unless C6G is wrong? Which is it?

 

[thehunterooo]

I think it's pretty easy to understand why the Mustang outsold Camaro and Challenger: It's by a few thousand dollars the cheapest car (pre-fl), it has the best practical value (especially in terms of visibility) and the design is the most classy/european and least muscle-car one.

Without doubt the Camaro is the best sportscar of the three, but it's clearly the least pratical too. And most people surely prefer having a huge trunk and rearseat space than having a better handling and performance right from the factory.

Again it doesn’t explain what is going on. C6G as a fourm said the Mustang is complete crap and a failure. Unless they are wrong?

 

[Hack]

It’s 50th anniversary, not 50 years of continuous models.

Duh. Sorry, but it's still lame to celebrate when you just started building the car again.

 

[02gtnh]

Duh. Sorry, but it's still lame to celebrate when you just started building the car again.

So in 2015 was the 50th anniversary of the GT350, yet how many years were they built? They just announced the 50th of the Bullet, yet how many years did they build them? Look up what anniversary means will help you answer your question.:headbonk:

 

[thehunterooo]

Duh. Sorry, but it's still lame to celebrate when you just started building the car again.

When did they stop making the Camaro? Stop being a fanboy :lol:

I guess recreating history is the new thing. The Mustang apparently didn't sell any cars in 2015 as well and 6th gen sales for the Mustang only started in 2016. I guess you have to have this thought process when all you have is someone who works at a car rental place releasing "insider" information about fleet sales and ATP.....

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