GT500 vs...

[thePill]

Now that we FOR SURE know the Camaro is based in the CTS and it will in fact use an LT4... Let's look at the CTS-V's Performance when Randy is driving? People keep looking to the ATS-V for Camaro inspiration but, the fact is, it's the CTS-V that resembles the Camaro.

Randy ran a 1:38.3 I believe (I'll confirm later) at Laguna Seca. Okay... that isn't really that great considering 650hp. The GT500 managed that with Randy driving. (Disclsimer: It does appear as if Randy does have some slow Mustng times at Laguna Seca. We noticed this when we compared his time to that of regular editors driving the base Boss 302.)

Anyway, 1:38.3 is around z28 territory. With the Camaro's better geometry and hosting probably the SAME EXACT EQUIPMENT, I'm thinking the LT4 Camaro will match the 2014 z28 at Laguna Seca. The CTS-V managed a 11.9@122mph, roughly what Chevy claims the ZL1 will do, even though it routinely runs 12.4-12-6... The acceleration data is totally incomplete so they only provided a 0-60. The V does it in 3.8...

MT's specific CTS-V weighed 4108lbs. Honestly, the CTS's Body in White is 40-60lbs lighter. I'm sure there are areas that help...but some measures may already be in place AND, those measures are costly.

The brakes held up on the CTS-V and stopped the vehicle well. The 15.3's and 14.x will increase the weight by nearly 40lbs in just rotor. Another 10lbs in caliper too... The wheels/tires should be larger than the CTS-V's for sure. Probably stay with a 20 at least in the rear. I don't think there will be much weight gain there.

I imagine all the 2SS equipment to be standard, that's 35lbs at least... Extra cooling for the supercharger for sure. Maybe make AC optional??? CCB's saved some weight but drive the MSRP up. I think forcing expensive consumables on the customer standard is a shitty idea.

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[Trackaholic]

Randy ran a 1:38.3 I believe (I'll confirm later) at Laguna Seca. Okay... that isn't really that great considering 650hp. The GT500 managed that with Randy driving. (Disclsimer: It does appear as if Randy does have some slow Mustng times at Laguna Seca. We noticed this when we compared his time to that of regular editors driving the base Boss 302.)

As I mentioned on your other post, those weren't "regular editors" but rather another race driver.

-T

 

[thePill]

As I mentioned on your other post, those weren't "regular editors" but rather another race driver.

-T

I know for sure Motor Trend used a Pro-driver in their Boss 302 test. The video they posted was in a base Boss 302 and they ran a 1:41.

I'm not sure what the Road and Track guys used. They said "we" so I assume the were referring to themselves...or maybe a hired driver... Regardless, Randy ran the slowest time among the media in this particular example.

 

[thePill]

The LT4 Camaro will STILL suffer heat buildup in the front and rear rotor. This is coming from multiple C5 members/FB insiders.

The SS has this problem too.... Brake will be an issue from SS to LT4. Word is the CTS rotors are merely parts bin. Most of the CTS's equipment wasn't designed for it.

 

[Twin Turbo]

Hmmmm...

Quote:
I think the Twin Turbo Coyote that we keep talking about is actually named the Cobra Jet. The program is called "Cobra Jet". Something tells me "Mach 1" was a Mustang engine program that involved a Supercharged Coyote.

The Ecoboost 5.0 (single turbo) has been marketed under the Ecoboost family.

I'm adding to this speculation.


I think the "King Cobra" 2015 Mustang Concept is actually a placeholder name for the GT500... Specifically the GT500KR or King of the Road. It will also be internally known as the King Cobra. A joke and poke at the 1978 King Cobra.

Where did that original quote come from, ThePill? It states the Ecoboost 5.0 (single turbo) has been marketed under the Ecoboost family. That's past tense. I've never heard of this engine. What am I missing??

The CobraJet name should be used........

But the CobraJet name is used for the drag racing (non-streetable) cars.....or at least it was from 2008-2014. Now there's no reason there couldn't be a production street version going forwards, and it was an option back in '68-'71 (or thereabouts). As was the Super CobraJet name.......

 

[mustangletback]

I know for sure Motor Trend used a Pro-driver in their Boss 302 test. The video they posted was in a base Boss 302 and they ran a 1:41.

I'm not sure what the Road and Track guys used. They said "we" so I assume the were referring to themselves...or maybe a hired driver... Regardless, Randy ran the slowest time among the media in this particular example.

and i will say this again,like i said before,randy drives the mustang slower on purpose,and people have said that he short shifts the mustangs.:rant::tsk:

 

[Erik427]

Where did that original quote come from, ThePill? It states the Ecoboost 5.0 (single turbo) has been marketed under the Ecoboost family. That's past tense. I've never heard of this engine. What am I missing??





But the CobraJet name is used for the drag racing (non-streetable) cars.....or at least it was from 2008-2014. Now there's no reason there couldn't be a production street version going forwards, and it was an option back in '68-'71 (or thereabouts). As was the Super CobraJet name.......

This single turbo Coyote is new news to me. The CobraJet name would be a nice tie in for Ford's racing efforts and the Mustangs that they sell.

 

[mustang_guy]

In my opinion, the old Iron 5.4 was better suited for aftermarket power. From the internals out to the iron block itself. It was just better suited for aftermarket power well beyond 1000hp.

The 5.8 Trinity did receive a bad name, from those that know better. Unfortunately, most people that do complain about that are the small portion that know this fact.

Trinity is better suited under 1000hp... The Iron block 5.4 could handle 2000hp all day long. The problem is, Ford engineered the internals for that... but the FGT nor GT500 ever came from the factory with 1000+hp. So, in order to make the engine cheaper while adding in some tech was to cut back on the Adamantium internal components. The short lived Aluminium 5.4 showed us it's potential. In my opinion, it fell short vs. the FE 5.4.

Going over 1000hp and most people would reach for the 5.8 first. Most would consider the Aluminium 5.4 over the Iron Condor too... I wise decision would be the cheaper Iron block... It was known to handle 2000hp...

well i didnt read or see anything that said 13,14 GT500 were blowing up all over the place,in stock form.:ford:

The 5.8 rods were tweeked 5.4 rods. They had a design flaw in them. What it took to make them work for the 5.8 is what made its weakeness. If you took advantage of its extended rpm usage of 7000rpms with 780-850whp your rods would snap sooner than later.. Its pathetic. Its the reason the super snake got all new rods. They knew better then to use tweaked. Enough 5.8s blew for us to know what caused it. Id say plenty of people got the stupid expensive pleasure.

Yes entirely reasonable to not have to upgrade engine internals while increasing power well well above factory. Not

The 5.8 was very reliable at stock conditions - unlike the z06 at stock conditions

You got to pay to play. No sympathy for those that modify part of a powertrain and expect the rest of the stock components to stand up




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As an ex 14 gt500 i have every right to be mad for cheaping out in the rod production. Until youve owned one i think you can keep your opinion to yourself. The coyote has no issues doubling its hp reliably. The gt500 could have done it with no issues if ford hadn't cheaped out on the rods. Its ridiculous what they charge for that motor 34ish grand for a long block or about 20-25g for a rebuild from a shop. They charge 7500 alone for a bare shortblock no crank. I didn't have mine blow. Im not looking for sympathy. Im just angry ford cheaped out on what was one of the most expensive mustangs in history. Its shit. I couldnt give a shit about stock conditions.

 

[SVTFreak]

The 5.8 rods were tweeked 5.4 rods. They had a design flaw in them. What it took to make them work for the 5.8 is what made its weakeness. If you took advantage of its extended rpm usage of 7000rpms with 780-850whp your rods would snap sooner than later.. Its pathetic. Its the reason the super snake got all new rods. They knew better then to use tweaked. Enough 5.8s blew for us to know what caused it. Id say plenty of people got the stupid expensive pleasure.


As an ex 14 gt500 i have every right to be mad for cheaping out in the rod production. Until youve owned one i think you can keep your opinion to yourself. The coyote has no issues doubling its hp reliably. The gt500 could have done it with no issues if ford hadn't cheaped out on the rods. Its ridiculous what they charge for that motor 34ish grand for a long block or about 20-25g for a rebuild from a shop. They charge 7500 alone for a bare shortblock no crank. I didn't have mine blow. Im not looking for sympathy. Im just angry ford cheaped out on what was one of the most expensive mustangs in history. Its shit. I couldnt give a shit about stock conditions.

Ford provided a motor reliable for the power level it came with. It's unreasonable to expect them to give you more. Where does that track end? It doesn't. I'm sorry but you're wrong. As soon as you start modding, it's unreasonable to expect an engineer to design that correctly when he doesn't even know what you'll do. And even more unreasonable for the 99% to foot the bill for the doubling that the 1% wants to do.

 

[mustang_guy]

More then 1% of us wanted to max out the blower. Ford over charges for that motor. Forged internals my ass. Ive never seen such shitty forged internals in my entire life. The rods were not designed properly for the extended 7000rpm they gave. The coyote internals from the s197 held up better and they weren't forged. Im not some small number of the 5.8 gt500 community that felt that way. I am definitely not wrong.

Also ford knew damn well people would max out the blower or step up one blower size. People did it with the termi. Dont paint some picture that ford did no wrong here. Gt500 owners wouldnt have been so mad if it didnt cost an ungodly amount to build the trinity if it blew up. Its half the damn price of the car. Or at least been able to max out your or blower without a ticking time bomb.

 

[SVTFreak]

That's why I bought a coyote and supercharged it. Because the trinity did not provide what I wanted. It did provide exactly what ford engineered it to.

The problem is that many people expected what it couldn't and wasn't designed to do. Ford didn't engineer it to do that.

 

[mustang_guy]

That's why I bought a coyote and supercharged it. Because the trinity did not provide what I wanted. It did provide exactly what ford engineered it to.

The problem is that many people expected what it couldn't and wasn't designed to do. Ford didn't engineer it to do that.

When i bought my 14 gt500 not a lot of news was circling about its rods being junky. I wouldn't have bought had i known. Id have bought a boss. I had no issues on my termi maxing out the stock blower. Which i ended up going for 1000whp and building it. But most were not blowing up the motor on the stock blower, maxed out. Its when they wanted more it blew. Rightfully so. People expected the same for this. Ford cheaped out on the rods big time. To sell their bare empty short block for what they do or long block is a slap in the face especially after they put flawwed rods in. To say my anger is misguided or wrong is sophistry.

 

[347CobraII]

Funny buyer wants engine with forged bottom to handle 1500hp. But buyer doesn't want to pay for it or complains how much car costs. Why would Ford do over build the engine for what reason? Engine worked great at power level when it left the factory. There's ole saying if you want to play you must pay. You want to crank up the power don't be surprised when something happens

 

[mustang_guy]

Funny buyer wants engine with forged bottom to handle 1500hp. But buyer doesn't want to pay for it or complains how much car costs. Why would Ford do over build the engine for what reason? Engine worked great at power level when it left the factory. There's ole saying if you want to play you must pay. You want to crank up the power don't be surprised when something happens

No one said 1500hp. Again you must be missing the point that ford askes an ungodly ridiculous amount for that motor. You also missed the point it should be able to handle a maxed out stock blower especially when ford bragged forged internals. Its insulting to those of us that spent 65g. Its the second highest costing production mustang other then the cobra jet. It is utter bs what they did. Period. I could go well into 850rwhp with a 2jzgte that was made in 93 without breaking the motor. That car only came with 320hp not 662hp. so i tell you again what ford did was shit. Bunch of excuse makers here. Hell the boss handled that power without snapping rods. Go back and actually read my posts. I expected for what they charge for the motor to be able to deal with a maxed out stock blower. It cant do it. The termi could. It is not unreasonable to expect this. Other mustangs that werent even blown factory could handle 300 crank bump on non forged internals and not break. Id understand if the rods broke on a step up in blower size. The hellcat isnt having this issue. The zr1 didnt have this issue on its blower maxed out.

 

[347CobraII]

No one said 1500hp. Again you must be missing the point that ford askes an ungodly ridiculous amount for that motor. You also missed the point it should be able to handle a maxed out stock blower especially when ford bragged forged internals. Its insulting to those of us that spent 65g. Its the second highest costing production mustang other then the cobra jet. It is utter bs what they did. Period. I could go well into 850rwhp with a 2jzgte that was made in 93 without breaking the motor. That car only came with 320hp not 662hp. so i tell you again what ford did was shit. Bunch of excuse makers here. Hell the boss handled that power without snapping rods.

You missed my point... Cost of the car has nothing to do with cost of the engine. You really don't know true cost of the engine just basing it off cost of the car. Again why would any manufacture SHOULD make engine with stand more power than what it was designed for????? Crazy to think anyone would think that. Same old argument people throw out what they paid for the car really don't matter. Thinking it should handle more power output than complain it blows up when they crank power up.

I guess if I crank my 15 GT up to 700 hp it pops I should complain I was screwed by Ford. I see same thing with semi trucks some cranking there 15 liters to 800-900hp complain when they break the crank or block say they where screwed by Cat or Cummins wow. New truck cost far more than your 65k car. Thinking of people just gets me sometimes LOL

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