GT350 vs. Z/28

[Pablo GT350]

What bumper/splitter is this?

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[Grimace427]

That is photoshopped. The car is Dusold Designs GT and it has a stock front bumper.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12272



This is the original:

 

[Sasuketr]

Last Friday i saw the gt350 really close by at the chicago autoshow, i m really curious how this car is going to perform. Funny thing is they had a yellow gt on the dyno with stock exhaust and it was completely blown away by the srt8 challenger and chargers in the test circuit! At least they could have used frpp exhaust or something;) By the way i love my Roush exhaust, the car transformed into a real beast! Totally recommend to everyone.

 

[thePill]

Awww... Other shops are weighing these cars and supporting my initial claim.

Boo hoo, let's try and discredit a 5 month old report.

My 2011 GT weighed 3555lbs with no washer fluid, nothing in the trunk and somewhere under 50 to E. The VERY FIRST 2015 we weighed was 3577lbs with nothing in the trunk and dealer fuel.

The very first 2015 we weighed was within a few pounds of my 2011.

That is fact... Nothing will change that...

Our '15 weighed 3577lbs, Terry's weighed 3593lbs, 16lbs between the two.

My 2011 weighed nearly 3580lbs, Terry's weighed 3563lbs, a 23lbs difference. Terry had a lighter 2011 and a heavier 2015. That... Just... Happened... Crying that my initial report was bogus is just pathetic.

I don't need to result to magazine's and order guides.

The scales didn't lie, nor did Terry's.

There will be some lighter 2015 GT's.

Get over it...


Keep trying your best at stacking additional weight and $$$ onto a Base GT to support your insane arguement. I don't want a Performance Pack or Premium, no one racing these cars would unless they have no choice and need to develope new product.

Terry was happy and so was I... Hopefully this clarifies my delight back in November.

 

[thePill]

As far as the 3705lbs goes, a base GT can and has been weighed at that already. My initial report assumed my Brembo GT was a heavy one (and it was at 3680lbs) AND, since I knew that personally, and just weighed a 2015 at a few pounds lighter, I assumed there may be options included into the 3705lbs to make up the 25-40lbs some Base cars were lacking.

I could support that claim on our first scale because I doubt it is the lightest car out there. Should I have pulled in every 2011-2014 GT and weighed them before assuming? No... Why would I... The '13-'14's are a little heavier.

I am satisfied and not as alarmed as I was with the 82lbs figure. In the real world, the '11-'14's are pretty much the same weight as the 2015.

Unless you settle for a car like Terry did... Hell, a fully loaded 2011 GT weighed over 3750lbs, only about 55lbs less than a fully loaded 2015.

Next time, when thePill tells you not to option a PP or Premium if weight is concerned, listen.

If you were worried that a 2015 was 82-125lbs heavier than what the previous GT's were weighed at... Don't be... The Performance Package made the S197 usable, even then, a 2015 out does it at every corner.

So far, they are within 30lbs of each other. Airbag removal will have us a little lighter than the 2011-'14's.

If anything thePill posted in November about the 1st '15 weight was inaccurate or misleading, I apologize. However, with Vorshlag's findings recently, I would say my initial report was pretty spot on.

Not my fault if you optioned a Performance Pack or Premium and are having second thoughts. All of the sudden you are weight watching and want to disput real world weights. I personally do not need M3/M4 type interior features and a Performance Pack that 1.) requires me to apply for a waiver and 2.) Is light years faster than a Boss 302 Laguna Seca. Ford never used the Base GT's weight as official nor did I, I always resorted to the 3622lbs they reported. It was also what the 82lbs difference was reported from... So I need to use a stripped down, Non-Brembo, Non-Premo Base GT frm 5 years ago AND, thousands less?

I can't class a faster Mustang...

From what I see, there could be 30-50lbs of GT weight that could get "brought up" when talking GT350 weight. I don't like that...

 

[thePill]

So we show you a base non PP GT with no gas and all the junk out of the trunk on the scales showing a weight of 3593, yet you have the mindset to believe a rumor of a 3560 and put more trust in the rumor then the actual pictures. Your credibility just took a serious hit.

This is no longer a rumor, after the Roush presentation Sunday, I went to see that Mustang (and two others).

The Mustang was weighed again with a different fuel level (still low) and only the air pump removed. It was slightly lighter than our 2015 we weighed...

The other two did not exceed Terry's 3593lbs...

Why would my credibility "take a hit"? Because a well known local Mustang specialty shop told me something and I drove up to verify? The very same people than put 2 of my last 5 Mustang's together. The same shop that will modify some areas of my GT/GT350... Anyway, All 2015's weighed at this level have been within 40lbs. That is a 20lbs spread each way AND, almost exactly where it was for the S197.

Yes, my credibly has taken a hit... of what ever you are smoking...

Did I supply any proof of a 4152lbs ZL1? Or a 600+ HP 2013 GT500? Or any video, pics or conversation of its run at the Ring? Did I ever post proof of the GT500's 7:30-7:40 Ring run? Or any proof that it would be a GT350 and not a Cobra or Mach 1? Any proof about the "R" coming back? Any proof of the z28's Ring failure? Or of its top speed limitations on the 3km stretch? Did I post proof that my color concept (that was deemed too exotic) was in fact guided by someone at Ford? Did I post any proof when Mitchell, the Ford insider claimed there was a 200-300lb weight gain?

Nope!!! Not a single picture or video... and that will never change... Besides, I'm sure there would be another childish argument brought up if I posted pics or vids. That I somehow removed weight before the scales set. Or the scales were not calibrated properly...

...but let a z28 cheat a stopwatch and advertise fully caged Ring runs then... That is acceptable...


Ha!!! You scabs!

 

[thePill]

What bumper/splitter is this?

That is a Voodoo Fascia originally designed by a member here. The finished product will be a working collaboration between him and I. I will be constructing FG and CF molds.

 

[02gtnh]

Proof or it didn't happen.

 

[thePill]

Proof or it didn't happen.

Then it didn't happen...

...as others assumed with most of my "speculation".

I would just rather observe the squirming for now. Better hope another garage doesn't weigh another GT. How awful would it be to see a 3660-3690lbs trend? Because that is about where we are at right now.

I can show you pics of a 2014 z28 NOT running what CHEVY advertised it would at the Ring. I even have pictures of the "official" time stopped and it NOT crossing the finish line.

All those pictures have been debunked... I don't think a picture would help some of you lost causes. I won't need to wait 2 1/2 years for a Ring time, these observations will be quite common.

All that Terry, other Terry, Wolf and I were excited about was that these cars were within a few pounds of the cars we were replacing. My '11 was heavier, T2's '12 was heavier, Terry's '11 was lighter and all three of the '15's that were weighed Monday were 15-26lbs lighter than T2's '14 (3601lbs).

We wanted to see more AND, we do see more within the standard equipment. We are pleased with what we got at the price we are getting them.

 

[DivineStrike]

Awww... Other shops are weighing these cars and supporting my initial claim.

Boo hoo, let's try and discredit a 5 month old report.

My 2011 GT weighed 3555lbs with no washer fluid, nothing in the trunk and somewhere under 50 to E. The VERY FIRST 2015 we weighed was 3577lbs with nothing in the trunk and dealer fuel.

The very first 2015 we weighed was within a few pounds of my 2011.

That is fact... Nothing will change that...

Our '15 weighed 3577lbs, Terry's weighed 3593lbs, 16lbs between the two.

My 2011 weighed nearly 3580lbs, Terry's weighed 3563lbs, a 23lbs difference. Terry had a lighter 2011 and a heavier 2015. That... Just... Happened... Crying that my initial report was bogus is just pathetic.

I don't need to result to magazine's and order guides.

The scales didn't lie, nor did Terry's.

There will be some lighter 2015 GT's.

Get over it...


Keep trying your best at stacking additional weight and $$$ onto a Base GT to support your insane arguement. I don't want a Performance Pack or Premium, no one racing these cars would unless they have no choice and need to develope new product.

Terry was happy and so was I... Hopefully this clarifies my delight back in November.

As far as the 3705lbs goes, a base GT can and has been weighed at that already. My initial report assumed my Brembo GT was a heavy one (and it was at 3680lbs) AND, since I knew that personally, and just weighed a 2015 at a few pounds lighter, I assumed there may be options included into the 3705lbs to make up the 25-40lbs some Base cars were lacking.

I could support that claim on our first scale because I doubt it is the lightest car out there. Should I have pulled in every 2011-2014 GT and weighed them before assuming? No... Why would I... The '13-'14's are a little heavier.

I am satisfied and not as alarmed as I was with the 82lbs figure. In the real world, the '11-'14's are pretty much the same weight as the 2015.

Unless you settle for a car like Terry did... Hell, a fully loaded 2011 GT weighed over 3750lbs, only about 55lbs less than a fully loaded 2015.

Next time, when thePill tells you not to option a PP or Premium if weight is concerned, listen.

***If you were worried that a 2015 was 82-125lbs heavier than what the previous GT's were weighed at... Don't be... The Performance Package made the S197 usable, even then, a 2015 out does it at every corner.

So far, they are within 30lbs of each other. Airbag removal will have us a little lighter than the 2011-'14's.

If anything thePill posted in November about the 1st '15 weight was inaccurate or misleading, I apologize. However, with Vorshlag's findings recently, I would say my initial report was pretty spot on.

Not my fault if you optioned a Performance Pack or Premium and are having second thoughts. All of the sudden you are weight watching and want to disput real world weights. I personally do not need M3/M4 type interior features and a Performance Pack that 1.) requires me to apply for a waiver and 2.) Is light years faster than a Boss 302 Laguna Seca. Ford never used the Base GT's weight as official nor did I, I always resorted to the 3622lbs they reported. It was also what the 82lbs difference was reported from... So I need to use a stripped down, Non-Brembo, Non-Premo Base GT frm 5 years ago AND, thousands less?

I can't class a faster Mustang...

From what I see, there could be 30-50lbs of GT weight that could get "brought up" when talking GT350 weight. I don't like that...

Each bullet represents each separate section of your quotes that I bolded in order.

• I'm done with your stupid lies man. Your initial claim was that the 2015 Base Gt's Curb weight (weight from the factory with a full tank of gas)would be around 3600lbs, i've even seen you claim it would be under 3600lbs. Your primary claim was that the 3705 weight of a base GT is that it included options, and you are still eluding to that.We have photographic evidence of a base GT with NO OPTIONS weighing in at a wet curb weight of 3705 lbs. Again NO OPTIONS. There are no options in a 3705lb Base GT. This proof discredits you in regards to curb weight from the factory.

• Now you are changing your story, you originally stated the 15 gt you weighed was about 7 miles to empty or so. Your car with an empty fuel tank weighs 3538lbs (I added the gallon back for your washer fluid weight, and a half gallon of fuel so all things are equal), the 15 you weighed 3577. That is a gain of 40lbs from your car. not a few

• Look at you, you can't even get the facts about your own car straight. You say your car weighs 3557 then you say it weighs almost 3580?

• The scales aren't lying, you are. Except you don't even realize it. I have nothing to get over lol

• I am not adding any options to anything...wtf are you talking about? A base GT no options weighs around 3705lbs, and if you are telling the truth about the car you weighed it ranges from the manufacturing process and paint by a dozen lbs or so. Still both are no options.

• the 3705 lbs is proven to bee with NO OPTIONS! No base cars with 0 options are 45lbs below the 3705lbs.

• I personally haven't seen any S197 Premiums w/ brembo or track package weigh much over 3620lbs. That is 85lbs less than a 15 Base GT NO OPTIONS. Since this is the packaging you like to use to compare. So it is safe to say the 15 Base GT no options is on average 50 to 85lbs heavier than a premium 11-14 GT.

• I haven't seen a 11-14 GT weigh 3750 unless it was a convertible. I did some research and found one guy online I think with a fully loaded premium and it was around 3700 or so. Not saying it hasn't happened, just that I haven't seen it. It would have to be completely tapped out with a glass roof even to hit that weight.

• the statement with the asterix is the most accurate statement you have made. The 15 Base GT w/ PP is about 125 lbs heavier or more than an s197 w/ brembo's. A base GT w/ 0 options is about that 87-125lbs heavier than a brembo s197 GT, dependent on if that s197 is a premium or base.

• Fully stripped weight w/ replacing components with lighter weight stuff might be where the s550 becomes lighter than an s197 and you can rejoice

• Could you please post a link to your initial report as I don't remember anything you were saying then to be anywhere near accurate to what is being reported now.

• Lol, I'm not having any second thoughts about the options I chose. It is what I wanted and have accepted the extra weight I added. I won't be competitively racing in this car so weight is not a concern in that regards. I do however plan to do basic weight reducing mods to get the car to feel a little better. If I were to want to compete, I could easily remove the extra weight the premium model added. Although perhaps you were right about the seat weight. They could easily be adding 50 lbs or so total. Another 30 or so for PP. I wonder where the rest of the weight is? Maybe MFT and other center console goodies and couple extra speakers makes up the other 20lbs.

• real world weights are supporting my side of the story.

 

[DivineStrike]

Then it didn't happen...

...as others assumed with most of my "speculation".

I would just rather observe the squirming for now. Better hope another garage doesn't weigh another GT. How awful would it be to see a 3660-3690lbs trend? Because that is about where we are at right now.

Proof is only a benefit to you if you have it. Most of your numbers for Empty weight no truck junk track within the realm of possibilities. I don't discount those claims. I discount your speculation from them and your twisting of facts on numbers that are accurate and which you disregard.

however the trend of 15 Base GT no option curb weight seems to be 3680-3705lbs. There are NO 3660lb GT's as of yet. 45lb difference between two equally optioned cars would be a tremendous discrepancy and I don't see that happening. The only realm that would be possible is if somehow the recaro's are under 50 lbs (any mustang from 11-14 the recaro's were heavier than the base cloth seats) and there is a lighter paint mustang weighed.

What color is your base 15 that weighed around 3680? If it is black, white then it is already the lightest paint. Maybe Race Red is also a light weight paint, I dont know. OEM Recaro's won't save much weight if any. 10lbs total at most from the cloth seats.

 

[thePill]

I'm done with your stupid lies man. Your initial claim was that the 2015 Base Gt's Curb weight (weight from the factory with a full tank of gas)would be around 3600lbs, i've even seen you claim it would be under 3600lbs. Your primary claim was that the 3705 weight of a base GT is that it included options, and you are still eluding to that.We have photographic evidence of a base GT with NO OPTIONS weighing in at a wet curb weight of 3705 lbs. Again NO OPTIONS. There are no options in a 3705lb Base GT. This proof discredits you in regards to curb weight from the factory.

Now you are changing your story, you originally stated the 15 gt you weighed was about 7 miles to empty or so. Your car with an empty fuel tank weighs 3527lbs (I added the gallon back for your washer fluid weight, so all things are equal), the 15 you weighed 3577. That is a gain of 50lbs from your car. not a few

Look at you, you can't even get the facts about your own car straight. You say your car weighs 3557 then you say it weighs almost 3580?

The scales aren't lying, you are. Except you don't even realize it. I have nothing to get over lol

I am not adding any options to anything...wtf are you talking about? A base GT no options weighs around 3705lbs, and if you are telling the truth about the car you weighed it ranges from the manufacturing process and paint by a dozen lbs or so. Still both are no options.

the 3705 lbs is proven to bee with NO OPTIONS! No base cars with 0 options are 45lbs below the 3705lbs.

I personally haven't seen any S197 Premiums w/ brembo or track package weigh much over 3620lbs. That is 85lbs less than a 15 Base GT NO OPTIONS. Since this is the packaging you like to use to compare. So it is safe to say the 15 Base GT no options is on average 50 to 85lbs heavier than a premium 11-14 GT.

I haven't seen a 11-14 GT weigh 3750 unless it was a convertible. I did some research and found one guy online I think with a fully loaded premium and it was around 3700 or so. Not saying it hasn't happened, just that I haven't seen it. It would have to be completely tapped out with a glass roof even to hit that weight.

the statement with the asterix is the most accurate statement you have made. The 15 Base GT w/ PP is about 125 lbs heavier or more than an s197 w/ brembo's. A base GT w/ 0 options is about that 87-125lbs heavier than a brembo s197 GT, dependent on if that s197 is a premium or base.

Fully stripped weight w/ replacing components with lighter weight stuff might be where the s550 becomes lighter than an s197 and you can rejoice

Could you please post a link to your initial report as I don't remember anything you were saying then to be anywhere near accurate to what is being reported now.

Lol, I'm not having any second thoughts about the options I chose. It is what I wanted and have accepted the extra weight I added. I won't be competitively racing in this car so weight is not a concern in that regards. I do however plan to do basic weight reducing mods to get the car to feel a little better. If I were to want to compete, I could easily remove the extra weight the premium model added. Although perhaps you were right about the seat weight. They could easily be adding 50 lbs or so total. Another 30 or so for PP. I wonder where the rest of the weight is? Maybe MFT and other center console goodies and couple extra speakers makes up the other 20lbs.

real world weights are supporting my side of the story.

Be done, there's the door. I can't help being enthusiastic that the new car is the same weight as the one I'm replacing.

Can't we be excited about the standard cars not being 82-125lbs heavier? Some of you desperately need to justify a Performance Pack and a Premium. I made option mistakes before... My '11 was a 401a... It was awful in retrospect.

The standard equipment on a 2015 is far better (and just as heavy if not more) than my Premo Brembo '11. I don't need to be an idiot here.

You are NOT using real world weights, you are using magazine weights.

We use the scales... You should learn to do the same.

 

[thePill]

Now your trying to tell me my 2011 GT was actually lighter than what I weighed it?

I think you've had enough...

Again, my '11 GT was 3555lbs, No washer fluid (10lbs), about 3 gallons of gas minus 6 pulls on a dyno and No trunk liner or pump. It weighed 3580lbs with the fluid and equipment restored.

The FIRST 2015 they weighed was 3577lbs with full washer fluid and no liner or pump in the trunk. Fuel was a gallon or so maybe.

Terry had a pretty light Brembo Premo... He was happy about the 2015 being only 30lbs heavier.

I had a pretty heavy Premo Brembo '11, I was happy it was almost 3lbs heavier than our first 2015 GT weighed.

Why is that a big deal?

 

[DivineStrike]

Be done, there's the door. I can't help being enthusiastic that the new car is the same weight as the one I'm replacing.

Can't we be excited about the standard cars not being 82-125lbs heavier? Some of you desperately need to justify a Performance Pack and a Premium. I made option mistakes before... My '11 was a 401a... It was awful in retrospect.

The standard equipment on a 2015 is far better (and just as heavy if not more) than my Premo Brembo '11. I don't need to be an idiot here.

You are NOT using real world weights, you are using magazine weights.

We use the scales... You should learn to do the same.

Did you even read my post?

Your car isn't the same weight, it is 40 lbs lighter than the 15 base GT YOU weighed.

The cars are 82-125lbs heavier...are you even looking at the weights you are posting?

I am using weights which I have seen from other people who have weighed their 11-14's....not just magazine weights. I use information from multiple sources and they all say the same thing. All of them are weights from a scale.

 

[DivineStrike]

Now your trying to tell me my 2011 GT was actually lighter than what I weighed it?

I think you've had enough...

You weighed your car at 3555 with 1/4 tank of gas (4 gallons that is 25.2lbs) Subtract that weight and leave half a gallon in. That is a weight of 3532.1lbs plus about 6lbs for that gallon of washer fluid you removed. That puts your car at about 3538.1lbs with equal fluids. Which is 40lbs less than the 15 you weighed with equal fluids

If you want the weight of your car at a curb weight spec adding all fluids and equipment it will weigh...

add 97.7lbs for 15.5 gallons of gas then 13lbs of trunk junk (I already added the washer fluid weight to the bolded weight number)

Your car has a curb weight of 3648.8 lbs ish lol

The 15 you weighed was 3577 with less than a gallon of gas and no trunk junk...now add in the fuel and equipment. I'll say the gas was about half a gallon....

again 97.7lbs for gas and 13 for trunk junk

That puts the 15's curb weight at::::

3687lbs


So lets recap the curb weight

Your car: 3648lbs

15 GT: 3687lbs


Sorry I miscalculated earlier, I will fix my post. I subtracted an extra 10lbs on accident and didn't leave half a gallon in before.

Unless your washer fluid is more than a gallon. The 15 only has a gallon reservoir

Unless of course maybe your leaving some facts out...

Did you actually ever weigh your personal car with a full tank and everything in the car?

Again, my '11 GT was 3555lbs, No washer fluid (10lbs), about 3 gallons of gas minus 6 pulls on a dyno and No trunk liner or pump. It weighed 3580lbs with the fluid and equipment restored.

I think you made a typo here. 3580lbs full fluids and equipment would make your car under 3500lbs empty.

However that doesn't even matter. if you do the math correctly, your Gt is still lighter than the 15

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