GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

The Boss ran a 1:40.52 the same day. Same driver...

The car was personally owned and Randy had some complaints with the replacement equipment.

I would take the Boss 302 over the z28 on price alone. An R tire Boss would be close enough. A few seconds can be gain with stickies, and, I could actually use the car as intended. At that speed, a T2 5.0 would be a challenge. No thanks, I can do a lot with a stock GT with tires and $40,000 dollars. What a waste...

Between fitting into a single, unlimited class and a Pratt Miller built car, this is not what I'm looking for. SCCA regionals would be nice... Especially for $80,000...

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[thePill]

Randy claims the Boss would have had another second with OEM pads. That's not a great enough distance for the $30,000. It would make sense if the 302R and 302S are picking up 2-3 seconds on the Laguna Seca. He thought the brake pads were weak... Oh well, I'll take a 1:40 in a car for almost 1/2 the price.

Another good thing, the Boss 302 was privately owned. It didn't have mods except pads (it's actually used to race an OEM class that the z28 can't).

I doubt we will see any of these $80,000 Camaro's racing anywhere. With the Camaro's track record of "Do good in magazines, fail at real life" starts to enter my thoughts. If they are willing to shave highly publicized Ring times, who's to say this isn't common practice. The 1LE did great against the Boss as well, then T2 GT's ate the 1LE alive... Literally chased out of the class. That was OEM racing, it was abandon...

The z28 needs to be lighter... I say, once those tires are gone, it's gonna be slightly faster than a 1LE.

The GT350 will be far beyond the Mustang GTR, as it stands, give me a 2015 Coyote. I don't like being excluded from class racing.

 

[Fenderaddict2]

While the number and tech are impressive for the Z/28, I can't help but feel with those tires, better brakes and a lower ride height the current Boss LS wouldn't be far off if not even equal.

 

[Jim968]

Same with the benchmark car: Porsche GT3. However isn't the Z28 faster around the ring? For half the price?

I haven’t seen a 991 GT3 Nurburgring time yet. Porsche probably needs to sort out the engine fire problem first. Conventional wisdom is that the two cars will be pretty close under similar track conditions.

Autoweek tested the 991 GT3 against the Z/28 at Barber with the GT3 beating the Z/28 by .53 seconds. For that .53 seconds Porsche will charge you a premium of $56,350 or 75% more than the Z/28.

 

[Stuntman]

I haven’t seen a 991 GT3 Nurburgring time yet. Porsche probably needs to sort out the engine fire problem first. Conventional wisdom is that the two cars will be pretty close under similar track conditions.

Autoweek tested the 991 GT3 against the Z/28 at Barber with the GT3 beating the Z/28 by .53 seconds. For that .53 seconds Porsche will charge you a premium of $56,350 or 75% more than the Z/28.

I was referring to the 997, but the 991 is a big jump in performance and that car is just ridiculous. I love it. You can't argue with the Z28's performance per dollar the same way you cant argue with the Nissan GTR's performance relative to its target: 911 Turbo.

I bet the S550 Mustang GTP-RS will be the fastest thing on the planet and make all those cars look silly.

 

[Jim968]

Another good thing, the Boss 302 was privately owned. It didn't have mods except pads (it's actually used to race an OEM class that the z28 can't).

What class would that be?

 

[Taneras]

You can't argue with the Z28's performance per dollar...

C6 Z06 says hello.

you cant argue with the Nissan GTR's performance relative to its target: 911 Turbo.

I wouldn't try, but didn't you just quote Diego Rosenberg as saying the Z28 would best the GTR around the track?

 

[Pablo GT350]

U really think the z/28 is faster round the ring than a 991 gt3? I dont think the z/28 will be as fast as the C7 z51!

 

[Jim968]

U really think the z/28 is faster round the ring than a 991 gt3? I dont think the z/28 will be as fast as the C7 z51!

I don’t think it will beat a 991 GT3 at the Ring, but I think it will be close.

If you take the Autoweek test at Barber referenced above as being representative of the Ring you can make a projection. The Ring is 5.43 times as long as Barber, which equates to 5.43 laps around Barber. If the Z/28 loses .53 seconds per Barber lap to the 991 GT3, then it would be 2.88 seconds behind at the Ring assuming identical track conditions and equally skilled drivers.

Of course if the 991 GT3 catches fire, then the Z/28 will win by default.

 

[thePill]

What class would that be?

All SCCA classes. Pics posted on the Assault Thread. There were a large number of NASA classes the Laguna was competitive in but, over the last two years, most classes were merged. I still think TT3 is still around...

The Laguna Seca was banned in NASA Solo. The OEM parts were deemed as an unfair advantage, as well as the Z06/Z07. The z28 may have similar issues.

NASA won't last much longer unless the car counts get better.

 

[thePill]

I briefly talked about the Z51 and z28's Nurburgring run on the Assualt Thread. Initially, my guys reported that the z28 was slightly slower than the 2012 ZL1's 7:41. The methods they use are elementary, I do admit. Although, they get pretty close to the "official" times. One thing is for sure, it is effective for seeing which car is faster than which. I think everyone remembers Team Camaro stated the run was the last run on the last day (not exact quote but the meat is there). Obviously, my guys didn't catch that last day... I can't blame them either, when I lived there and attended the Industy Pool, it's long and mostly boring. I'd drink at Hotel Tiergarten most times... You get more info there anyway.

Back on topic, the z28 finally beat the ZL1 after 2 weeks of attempts (30-40 I think they said). My guys were right and I'm confortable now too with my decision to post that. My 7:30-7:40 2013 GT500 run got me slammed for 2 FULL YEARS. It wasn't until Ford released a video that I got a pat on the back for that. Sometimes, Nurburgeing times really rant worth mentioning.... off topic again, sorry...

The guys had the Z51 running a little faster than the ZL1... a second or two... I'm not sure a Stingray time has been released yet. I believe there is an issue with the pecking order.

Motor Trend makes a seemingly info-less claim. It cost more than a Corvette and yet is not as fast. That is a direct referance to what I'm talking about at Nurburging. Motor Trend does not know my friends in Germany so the info wasn't from them. Either they had spy's there as well (likely) or they ran a Z51 too but didn't report it. I'm not sure Chevy would send a C7, I would really like to see that match up though. I think they will avoid this confrontation as well.

I think the z28 is performing right where Chevy needed it to. They just couldn't get it fast enough to challenge it's real competitors. Once all the Band-Aids were applied to the 5th Gen to make it worth a sh!t, the car belonged in a... a class that doesn't exist... The Boss was raw and at the price, almost disposable... A Boss looks better banged up just as PJ did in 1970. It was widely accepted where the 5.0 GT classed with some restriction obviously.

I think Team Camaro is insanely jealous of the 2011-2012 season Boss 302 dominance in Grand Am and SCCA. It won half if the races in those classes, a Championship, tied an SCCA record held by PJ in his '70 Boss 302 (F@&$in Heritage!!!) and Roush damn near win the Continental Tire Championship in '11. The Boss 302S was tied with the Z06 in T1 as well... In two seasons...

That cuts deep... It's an almost Sterling track record compared to what they have to endure. Not offering a OEM competitor is pretty much like being punked on. The Boss had the M3 on the run, something that became difficult to do once BMW started making a homologated M3 in 2009. Ford followed a year later and was dominant for two years until the restrictions came. The '14 z28 should have been it... It even gave them 4 years of R&D like the Mustang had before they offered a competitive OEM offering... That's all been destroyed...

They need to fix this now and get a real car in the hunt. This is not Z/28 heritage, it's z28 heritage...A distorted and warped vision of the original. Mostly brought up to heights only to serve an exaggerated badge image. A 2014 perspective on sport coupe marketing and the racing industry used to sell them. It's been a long 50 years and the competition has flocked to this idea.. Their products thrive on it... The z28 needs a Z/28 option...

Here is the QUESTION of the WEEK...

If Chevy could offer a race legal version, what would that build list look like?

Some things that need replacing; Brakes both CC and the over 380mm disc all around and the front tires need to come down to a 295 (I believe it's waiverable). Doesn't Chevy have brakes that would be 380mm/15 inch and cast iron? The 305 in the front isn't SCCA compatible unless they changed it...

...and I would love to see the price come down to $65,000. I remember people laugh at that extremely high digit... As I said before and don't laugh at this but...


...the 2014 Camaro z28 needs a Z/28 option fast.

The Car and Driver review shows the z28 at a 53/47 weight distribution. I thought it was 50/50. It also shows the 2013 GT500's base performance was identical in braking and G's. The C7 is also labeled as a competitor, can't wait to see that road course comparison. Is there only ONE lap time done by Randy? No other magazines recorded a lap? Let me check C&D because I have never seen just one time published for the entire media.

BIG EDIT: Road and Track ran a 1:05.18 at Buttonwillow Config. #24. That is only 1.14 seconds faster than the 2004 C6 Corvette tested there over a decade ago. The C6 had 405hp and did the lap in 1:06.32... The 2005 Viper ran it a bit slower than the C6. The z28 might not be comfortable on really tight tracks.

ONLY TWO LAP TIMES WERE MADE? Please post any I may be missing, C&D didn't do a lap and Hot Rod/Automobile/MT used Randy's run. Only Hot Rod reported the Boss 302's time. No track info at all, not like the GT500 vs. ZL1 runs were broken down. Why wasn't C&D doing timed laps? This is pretty crappy coverage for a car imitating the heart of racing. Why pick Barber and Buttonwillow? There is no past info for Barber and Buttonwillow hasn't been used since 2006-'07. No GT-R comparison, they didn't put the lug nuts on right and it sheared the GT-R's studs off. No Corvette or Z06, No ZL1, No GT500. Where was the GT3 lap? I figured since I witnessed the Milford runs, I would have liked to seen the completion run...

...I guess we will assume they tried as hard as they could in the competitors seat. They would never sandbag another car just to make themselves look better...

 

[SuperC]

I can't wait to see the Bieber-esque fanboy excuses after tomorrow's Head2Head.

Brand loyalty is all well and good but when you can't admit you got beat, you just look stupid.

 

[Jim968]

Here is the QUESTION of the WEEK...

If Chevy could offer a race legal version, what would that build list look like?

If the Z/28 isn't legal to race in SCCA then why is it listed as a T1-LP car on page 808 of the 2014 SCCA GCR?

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2014 GCR March1.pdf

 

[Taneras]

C6 isn't currently in production.

Neither is the Boss 302, yet you quoted GM authority about how superior the Z28 was to the Boss. If the Z28 can't be compared to cars that aren't currently being produced, that's fine. But if it is, its better than the Boss 302 that's almost half its price and worse than the C6 Z06 that's basically the same price.

Yes, and I think its time was quicker than the GTR's around the 'Ring, until Nismo comes back with their new crazy GTR. Either way, the GTR was a great value in terms of performance per dollar (PPD) compared to its target and the Z28's PPD is pretty impressive in its own right and if its outright faster than a GTR around a track, that's saying alot.

Unless I'm mistaken, the GTR has posted a 7:24 lap time, 13 seconds faster than what the Z28 pulled. I understand the Z28 had issues with a drizzle during the last bit of its lap but I think the GTR had similiar issues for its 7:24 lap.

 

[Gman11Gt]

I don’t think it will beat a 991 GT3 at the Ring, but I think it will be close.

If you take the Autoweek test at Barber referenced above as being representative of the Ring you can make a projection. The Ring is 5.43 times as long as Barber, which equates to 5.43 laps around Barber. If the Z/28 loses .53 seconds per Barber lap to the 991 GT3, then it would be 2.88 seconds behind at the Ring assuming identical track conditions and equally skilled drivers.

Of course if the 991 GT3 catches fire, then the Z/28 will win by default.

Porsche agreed to change out every single motor so you might want to rethink that.

The thing I hate about ring times is there is too many variables to just label cars as better lap times. Conditions change, drivers feedback, all kinds of variables. I prefer the ring times better then one lap. At least you have a statistical average to look at.

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