GT350 vs Hellcat: different class or competitors?

[Stage_3]

If I were buying a track car, obviously the GT350.
If I were buying a drap strip car, the Hellcat.
Very two different animals and rightfully so. Both are beautiful cars and I wouldn't mind either one. (Actually, I would want a GT350R car, not a GT350.) The GT350 would run around the Hellcat, especially on a twisty road course. Not to say that the Hellcat can't handle. It can, but not to the same way the GT350 was built for. The Hellcat would make the GT350 look slow on a drag strip. Not that the GT350 couldn't run the drag strip because it can. That's the beauty of the GT350. It's a dual purpose car, more so than the Hellcat is.

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[bluebeastsrt]

The question originally asked of this thread is not does the Hellcat handle? All cars handle to some degree! The question is. Is it direct competition to a GT350? It more than competition at a drag strip. Not so much at a road course. Collectability will be figured out in time. Price, they are competitive.

 

[Caballus]

The question originally asked of this thread is not does the Hellcat handle? All cars handle to some degree! The question is. Is it direct competition to a GT350? It more than competition at a drag strip. Not so much at a road course. Collectability will be figured out in time. Price, they are competitive.

Good point. I would say it has beyond more than competitive on the drag strip, just like the 350 has more than a competitive edge on the track. Although there is no way to quantify it, it would also probably be safe to say, the difference on the drag strip in favor of the HC is about the same as the difference on the track in favor of the GT350. That's very subjective without some sort of quantifiable research method, but if accepted it means they are in the same class, but each with different principle strengths.

 

[Taneras]

Interesting. Never heard him make references to other cars in that class. May have missed it, but only heard him reference that car's attributes----again, may have missed it, admittedly.

He compared it, as you said in your edit, to the Alfa Romero 4C. But more importantly, whats the point of giving your review on something without touching on what its competitors are offering? How can you say how well this car does a task when you don't bother to see if a different company is putting out a similar product that does even better?

Also missed reference to handling great.

At the end he said it handled the snake great.

Perhaps, I'm too literal in my interpretation.

That and/or your stances are very confusing and don't seem to be consistent.

You hesitate to say that it handles "great", or even "good" but you want us to believe you when you say that its an all around performer (meaning it has acceleration and handling). When I think of "all around performer" adjectives like "good" and "great" come to mind. Even being generous, I don't think "average" would be applicable considering the company the Hellcat is in. It's tough to see a "below average" assessment as criteria for "all around performer".

The bar has been moved upwards quite a bit in the last decade thanks to some pretty great technology that's now more affordable. Any Alpha SS version handles better, some of the older Zeta Camaros will handle better (ZL1/1LE). I have no idea how far you'd have to back into the Corvette's history to find a slower around the track car. The new Mustang GTPP outhandles it as does the GT350 and GT350R. Are there any new american performance cars, outside of their little V6 and I4 brothers, that this car *can* beat?

What I am super confused about is how the GTPP entered a conversation about the GT350 and HC...interesting...lol

If the Hellcat can't beat a GTPP around the track, why try and compare it to the GT350 which is the GTPP's older brother on stereoids?

I understand Dodge's marketing trying to pad the Hellcat's resume, but informed car enthusiasts like ourselves know better.

 

[Caballus]

He compared it, as you said in your edit, to the Alfa Romero 4C. But more importantly, whats the point of giving your review on something without touching on what its competitors are offering? How can you say how well this car does a task when you don't bother to see if a different company is putting out a similar product that does even better?



At the end he said it handled the snake great.



That and/or your stances are very confusing and don't seem to be consistent.

You hesitate to say that it handles "great", or even "good" but you want us to believe you when you say that its an all around performer (meaning it has acceleration and handling). When I think of "all around performer" adjectives like "good" and "great" come to mind. Even being generous, I don't think "average" would be applicable considering the company the Hellcat is in. It's tough to see a "below average" assessment as criteria for "all around performer".

The bar has been moved upwards quite a bit in the last decade thanks to some pretty great technology that's now more affordable. Any Alpha SS version handles better, some of the older Zeta Camaros will handle better (ZL1/1LE). I have no idea how far you'd have to back into the Corvette's history to find a slower around the track car. The new Mustang GTPP outhandles it as does the GT350 and GT350R. Are there any new american performance cars, outside of their little V6 and I4 brothers, that this car *can* beat?



If the Hellcat can't beat a GTPP around the track, why try and compare it to the GT350 which is the GTPP's older brother on stereoids?

I understand Dodge's marketing trying to pad the Hellcat's resume, but informed car enthusiasts like ourselves know better.

The point is like opinions...

A review of a product need not be in reference to another product. Appears there are inferences being drawn without implications. Perhaps that's necessary from an individual point of view to enable personal comprehension by some (or one?), but it is by no means universally applicable for all readers/viewers.

He may have said it handled the snake great, but, first, I don't interpret that as the car is a great handler--he says the opposite. Second, even if one does interpret his statement to be an attribution of great handling, I do not believe it to be a "great handler." Moreover, I differentiate between great and good and have purposely used neither in regard to handling, despite numerous attempts to modify my words. I have, on the contrary, been extremely consistent: "My point has been, and remains, that the Hellcat is not simply a straight line racer. It is a spirited all around performance car straight off the assembly line. It performs well on the track and strip...and can hold it's own (if not totally outrun) any other American production car on the Autobahn." Does that mean it's a great handler? Not in my words or estimation. It means it performs well on the track and strip.

Not sure where Dodge padding the resumé came from. Discussion was on them underselling the resumé for liability purposes. This was in context of the 1.02g reading (assuming it's true). If the reference is to the video, that had nothing to do with Dodge, so padding would not apply there either. A reference to Dodge's marketing spiel was made much earlier on, but if that is being cited it needs to be properly contextualized to make sense in this part of the conversation.

Finally, not sure either how to interpret "older brother on steroids." The engines are totally different, suspension is different (particularly on tech, track, and R), and even some of the body parts are different to accommodate the GT350's width. Different class of car altogether, with or without the $2,500 performance package. In fact, I remain confused over how the GT entered a Shelby GT350/HC discussion. Seems like stray voltage, a matter better for a separate thread that compares the HC to the GT, leaving the GT350 to itself.

 

[Hack]

Finally, not sure either how to interpret "older brother on steroids." The engines are totally different, suspension is different (particularly on tech, track, and R), and even some of the body parts are different to accommodate the GT350's width. Different class of car altogether, with or without the $2,500 performance package. In fact, I remain confused over how the GT entered a Shelby GT350/HC discussion. Seems like stray voltage, a matter better for a separate thread that compares the HC to the GT, leaving the GT350 to itself.

I thought it was a good metaphor. The GTPP and GT350 are both Mustangs, but the GT350 has a number of upgrades mostly intended to improve track (road course) performance.

For a 1/4 miler I would love to have a Hellcat. And I'd love to have one just because they are wicked awesome. But they aren't a great handling machine. Turning corners is not a key strength for the Hellcat.

 

[Taneras]

A review of a product need not be in reference to another product. Appears there are inferences being drawn without implications. Perhaps that's necessary from an individual point of view to enable personal comprehension by some (or one?), but it is by no means universally applicable for all readers/viewers.

I understand why you don't want to make comparisons now, you see how far back the Hellcat is. But don't forget you were the one touting the 7:51 Nurburgring lap time as if it was evidence of how well the Hellcat could handle. What good is a lap time without a comparison to other cars?

Tell you what, ignoring comparisons, the new Toyota Prius is an all around performer - just like the Hellcat. :lol: There's no 1st, 2nd or 3rd place. Everyone gets a participation ribbon!

I have, on the contrary, been extremely consistent: "My point has been, and remains, that the Hellcat is not simply a straight line racer. It is a spirited all around performance car straight off the assembly line. It performs well on the track and strip...and can hold it's own (if not totally outrun) any other American production car on the Autobahn." Does that mean it's a great handler? Not in my words or estimation. It means it performs well on the track and strip.

In what world does "performs well on the track" mean its pretty much dead last with new american sports cars? I think that's the disconnect we're having.

Not sure where Dodge padding the resumé came from.

I already explained that. The GT350 vs Hellcat comparison seemed to stem from a comment you made about Dodge's website. That's absolutely padding the resume for handling considering the GTPP even beats the Hellcat.

Finally, not sure either how to interpret "older brother on steroids."

Do you know what the purpose of steroids is? If so, use your imagination.

The engines are totally different, suspension is different (particularly on tech, track, and R), and even some of the body parts are different to accommodate the GT350's width. Different class of car altogether, with or without the $2,500 performance package.

Its superior in pretty much any way to the GTPP, and yet the GTPP is a better handling car than the Hellcat. So why are you trying to force a comparison between a Hellcat and a GT350 when as far as numbers goes the GTPP and Hellcat are much closer?

In fact, I remain confused over how the GT entered a Shelby GT350/HC discussion.

Instead of repeatedly telling me you're confused, ask me a pointed question that would solve your confusion. What, specifically, are you not understanding?

 

[Caballus]

I understand why you don't want to make comparisons now, you see how far back the Hellcat is. But don't forget you were the one touting the 7:51 Nurburgring lap time as if it was evidence of how well the Hellcat could handle. What good is a lap time without a comparison to other cars?

Tell you what, ignoring comparisons, the new Toyota Prius is an all around performer - just like the Hellcat. :lol: There's no 1st, 2nd or 3rd place. Everyone gets a participation ribbon!



In what world does "performs well on the track" mean its pretty much dead last with new american sports cars? I think that's the disconnect we're having.



I already explained that. The GT350 vs Hellcat comparison seemed to stem from a comment you made about Dodge's website. That's absolutely padding the resume for handling considering the GTPP even beats the Hellcat.



Do you know what the purpose of steroids is? If so, use your imagination.



Its superior in pretty much any way to the GTPP, and yet the GTPP is a better handling car than the Hellcat. So why are you trying to force a comparison between a Hellcat and a GT350 when as far as numbers goes the GTPP and Hellcat are much closer?



Instead of repeatedly telling me you're confused, ask me a pointed question that would solve your confusion. What, specifically, are you not understanding?

Never mind. Interesting opinion. Enjoy your GT

 

[nastang87xx]

I still don't understand why this is being discussed. Dodge themselves even said the car is not a corner carver and was never meant to be. It CAN go around a track but it's beside the point. It is an homage to the true soul of muscle car with too much power up front and two helpless tires in the rear. It obviously has an appeal because it sells and sells well.

 

[thatdude989]

Damn you all are still talking about this GT350 a track car hellcat for staright line drag racing even tho the GT350 can do this

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[bluebeastsrt]

I still don't understand why this is being discussed. Dodge themselves even said the car is not a corner carver and was never meant to be. It CAN go around a track but it's beside the point. It is an homage to the true soul of muscle car with too much power up front and two helpless tires in the rear. It obviously has an appeal because it sells and sells well.

Hell yea it has appeal. As eleanor-roosevelt said' America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed!

 

[Taneras]

Never mind. Interesting opinion. Enjoy your GT

Here's a participation ribbon. I hope Hellcats hang with your GT350.

 

[Caballus]

Here's a participation ribbon. I hope Hellcats hang with your GT350.

Unfortunately, we already know your GT won't hang with it, and I'll need some kind of competition... Thanks for the ribbon.:first:

 

[Taneras]

Unfortunately, we already know your GT won't hang with it, and I'll need some kind of competition... Thanks for the ribbon.:first:

Correct, thankfully for you these cars don't run on intelligence.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Unfortunately, we already know your GT won't hang with it, and I'll need some kind of competition... Thanks for the ribbon.:first:

My GTPP will out run it on a road course. Thanks for playing.

Maybe you can caress your friend that has the HC and make him feel better when he watches that video of the GTPP beating it by a second around that track.

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