Gt350 vs e92 M3

[mustang_guy]

I asked only because you clearly dont believe in the product you work with calling it a "shit box". If I were you, I would work for a brand that I believe in as I m sure your opinion on the product you work with will greatly reflect on the quality of the work you perform.

I am not the minority. Ms are much more reliable cars than their regular counterparts. This is a fact. The effective probablity of an M car failing is far less than its regular counter part.

Just curiois what version of ISTA you guys use?

I dont need to believe in what i work on to be where i make over 100hrs of booktime a week. I go where there is good job security and what makes me money.

I dont feel you are in a place to give me work advice. Ive been a master tech for over 3 decades in the automotive industry. Im very good at what i do.

Please dont tell me what is the minorty, you are not qualified to say what is and isnt. You are an owner, you have zero idea what i see on a daily basis. The only thing that is fact is you have too strong of a bias to the brand of bmw to give an objective and accurate representation of what the Bmw product is.

M cars are a low volume car. Of course i will see more non M cars. Its a numbers game. Thats just silly. For M cars being a low volume car i have tons of them in these bays for more then just oil changes. I had an m4 in my bay this morning for typical bmw leaks and electrical issues. :lol:

Unless you are an industry professional please dont pass opinions off as fact. While i respect your right to like what you want, as we all do, dont try to tell me how my job actually is. Id also like to point out I do not hate bmw. I like e30 m3s and the older classics like 2002s.

I find your last question to be irrelevant to the topic of reliability and is of no importance to this thread or yourself. Again no tone to any of this text. Just speaking matter of factly. I say that again because people seem to add tone to my posts often.

Sponsored

 

[1mic]

These new S550's are making big power on the stock block and internals. Reliably 700-750RWHP under FI (SC or Turbo). The hellion car made over 900RWHP and has for a good while. A bone stock engine.

+1

I'm not to familiar with BMW's and I dont hear about many bmws putting out anything north of 600hp with a stock internal engine. But for comparison, Ford does make motors that make them desirable to mod. 5.8 Trinity, 5.0 Roadrunner, 4.6 Terminator, 5.0 coyote (for s550 cars). All of these motors mentioned can make power beyond 800rwhp. All stock internal motors including the block.

If you want a fast new car and do not want to spend much, the S550 5.0 with a single turbo would be my route.

 

[mustang_guy]

These new S550's are making big power on the stock block and internals. Reliably 700-750RWHP under FI (SC or Turbo). The hellion car made over 900RWHP and has for a good while. A bone stock engine.

The current base vette engines cant make more then 700whp without cams and headwork. We have made 1100whp 100% stock engine. They cant do it. They cant even reliably make 800-850whp like we can. They blow up on stock internals at 800whp. They dont hold a candle to the coyote/road runners.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

The current base vette engines cant make more then 700whp without cams and headwork. We have made 1100whp 100% stock engine. They cant do it. They cant even reliably make 800-850whp like we can. They blow up on stock internals at 800whp. They dont hold a candle to the coyote/road runners.

:cheers::ford:

 

[mustang_guy]

:cheers::ford:

See edit. Wait no you got the current changes

 

[baege]

This is some interesting feedback about C7. I honestly have never heard about the issue with throttle response. Are you sure your car was setup properly?

I drove a Z06 and to me it felt quite sharp. I would expect a base C7 to have even better response due to lack of supercharger.

Anyways, if there is anything E92 does well, its the throttle response. Its simply amazing. Rev matching in that car is a total blast. I would compare it to a 4.0 gt3rs, obviously not as nimble but just comparing engine response.

The only two issues I had with the E92 were the shifter and the seating position. I would definitely get a set of recaro seats as the stock seat is way too high and does not grab you like recaros. You also need a short shifter kit as the stock shifter is has way too long throws.

Nah my c7 was brand new. I've driven a few C7's and felt the same thing and I am not the only one, go to the C7 forums and you will see many people aren't happy with the throttle response. But it's partial throttle response we are talking about. Mash the throttle on the C7 and it responds strongly, but it's not a nice progressive throttle. 50% pedal does not equate to 50% power. So you give it partial throttle inputs and it doesn't respond very well. I was expecting it to feel even stronger than my old fox body 5.0 mustangs which were ballsy with even 1/4 throttle. But unless you are mashing the throttle a C7 doesn't actually feel that strong. I guess people who don't experience that always mash the throttle

But I am very sensitive to the throttle lag, hence why I dislike turbos.
nice to hear the e92 has excellent throttle response, I only drove one briefly about 7 years ago so it's hard to remember the finer details.

 

[Trackaholic]

Thanks for the very helpful replies. I think you are swaying me towards the M3. and it's not just because I also love Arsenal

A little about me, I currently have a 2016 Cayman S. I went from a 2014 Cayman S to a 2015 C7 ZF1 (not Z51). I made that move last spring because I wanted a change and I was looking for some good low end torque times like I had in my youth with my ol 5.0 stangs. Well the C7 disappointed me on many fronts, including size, visibility and throttle response. So your comments about the e92 being superior to the gt350 on those fronts really hit home. The C7's throttle response is very artificial and laggy, owing to its torque management system. You really feel this with partial throttle inputs, if you really lay into it, it's not too bad in track mode, but at anything less than like 3/4 throttle, it is laggy, even in track mode. The laggy throttle means that the stellar low end torque is not all that accessible anyways. Honestly at partial throttle inputs the C7 didn't feel much quicker than my 981S (which has great throttle response) around town. This really disappointed me. I also didn't like not being to check my driver's side blind spot (you have to rely on mirrors only) and I found the large wide hood took away from feeling connected to the road.

So after 3 days with the C7 I tried to get my old Cayman S back (a Porsche dealer had bought it from me), but it was sold, so I was forced to order a new cayman, a 2016. Not sure why the e92 didn't come up on my radar at the time, but it didn't.

I still enjoy the cayman, but I am bored with it, since between the 2014 and 2016 I have had the same car for about 3 years and that's a long time for me. I also find lately I am moving more to a grand touring style of driving, I don't enjoy revving it out all the time and driving like a hooligan. More of a cruiser than a bruiser now.

Sounds like the e92 might be the better choice for me over a gt350. I am also contemplating an f type coupe manual or a vantage v8 2009 and up if anyone has any insights on those

I totally agree about the shortcoming of the LT1 in terms of throttle response. You mention the hood being an issue though, which might be even worse in a GT350 than in the C7. The shape is different, but in the C7 you easily see the two fender humps over the front wheels, while the GT350 has much taller center section. I do find it pretty easy to place the car though. Maybe the creases around the air vent help me register the position.

In another thread you asked about a non-Z51 C7 compared to the Voodoo, and posted this:

I like grunt down low and I can not lie :shrug:

I had mentioned that the GT350 isn't as strong down low compared to the LT1, but compared to the S65 the Voodoo is a beast. The reason people say you need to wind out the M3 to make power is because you do. It makes 225 lb-ft below 2700 RPM and 250 above 3000 (according to that dyno posted earlier). The Voodoo on the other hand makes 275 below 3300 (more than the M3 ever makes), and 350 above 3500 (according to my dyno)

If you really do like low end torque, I don't know that the M3 will be a good match. It is an awesome car though, so it very well might be excellent due to its extremely well balanced nature.

Another person mentioned the lack of tech on the GT350 Track Pack, and I feel the need to disagree with that somewhat. It may not have iDrive (not sure having iDrive should be considered a positive though), but it still has pretty much all the modern features: USB port, bluetooth phone connectivity, push button start. As a benefit, it actually uses pushbuttons for most of the key features, which makes it safer that most touchscreen systems. Also, the voice recognition actually works pretty well. I agree that the materials and interior layout aren't as nice, but in terms of features it seems to have most of the most useful bases covered. Would be nice to have in integrated garage door opener though. Upon reflection, maybe it's just that my standards for "tech" are pretty low.

The exterior fit and finish is really the biggest area that Ford needs to improve IMO. I think it can be distracting and does detract from the overall quality of an otherwise awesome car.

Finally, the Recaro seats in the GT350 are simply amazing. I can't say that enough. Extremely comfortable, with excellent bolstering. The only issue is that they can make the car difficult to enter and exit.

I love the E9X M3, and would love to have one. If I already had an E9X I don't think I would give it up unless I was able to test drive a GT350 to see if it felt right. But it was an easy choice for me to purchase a new GT350 over a used M3. My kids can still fit in the back of the Mustang, so the rear seat size isn't an issue.

I think both cars are likely to be special for some time to come.

-T

 

[Rogue]

As much as I love the C7 - it's a fantastic platform. I will say I was left wanting more from the engine as well.

 

[Spectre]

Keep your Cayman S

 

[baege]

Keep your Cayman S

yah I wish I could just add to my stable like you are contemplating :hail:

 

[Spectre]

yah I wish I could just add to my stable like you are contemplating :hail:

It's not happening to me for some time. Trust me.

Also, think of the money hit you take when you trade in so often. You probably could add to your own stable with the money you save from trading in so often.

Not trying to be difficult, but I think that needs to be pointed out, no?

 

[VoodooV8]

As a long time BMW fanatic,
Owned 07' 335i, 07' X3, 09' 335i, 09' M3, 11' Z4 35is, 11' M3 Coupe, 13' 335i, 13' M3 Coupe, 14' M5 Sedan and a 15' M4 Coupe..

With that said, the E92 M3 was the unicorn among high revving, awesome sounding V8's in the late 2000's.

The S65 is a great motor. Great sound as well.
The E92 M3 itself.. good handling car. A bit portly in regards to weight (seriously who here was calling the M3 lightweight compared to the GT350, you must be out of your mind)
Looks a bit dated now with all the new M offerings though.

Now, BMW did a lot to make the S65 based car wanted even after almost 8-9 years.
That being said, this is bit of a dumb argument. The GT350 does almost everything better than the E92 M3.

The GT350 looks FRESH.
Sound goes to the GT350. Power goes to the GT350. Handling goes to GT350. Better suspension goes to the GT350. It has nicer seats (both track pack and tech). I would say it looks better subjectively. It's newer. It's more reliable at the moment. It's more of a looker and will give you more attention. The GT350 is WAY faster than the E92 M3. The navigation is quite intuitive thanks to SYNC 3. iDrive is atrocious to use still even in 2015. Older iDrive's (E92 M3 era is cancerous comparatively) is very dull and ugly. Did I really need to even reiterate that point of performance by the way? Who is seriously comparing them performance wise? The GT350 WALKS all over the M3.

I had this argument on the M2 vs GT350 forum were someone said the M2 was going to be close to the GT350 in terms of performance and I had to shut them down on that wish.. REAL quick.

I don't get all the comparisons of "Well if I had 25k more, I could make it have WAY more power, it would handle WAY better," etc. That's just dumb to even mention considering you're basically comparing apples to oranges regarding extremely modded E92 M3's ready to blow their motor to a stock GT350.. LOL.

BMW has lost their way I agree when comparing souls of the yesteryear M models. Engines aren't much special and don't sound that good either. They are GREAT cars though day to day.

GT350 > E92 M3. Ask me how I know.. 5 years of S65 and 100,000 miles under my belt on that motor. The S65 doesn't have any torque, it feels like a higher displacement Honda motor, sorry to say.

 

[baege]

It's not happening to me for some time. Trust me.

Also, think of the money hit you take when you trade in so often. You probably could add to your own stable with the money you save from trading in so often.

Not trying to be difficult, but I think that needs to be pointed out, no?

who says I trade in?

I pay cash, and I usually get retail for my cars so that lessens the blow a little

the last 10 years I've had a 2004 Chrysler crossfire, 2007 Z4 Coupe 3.0si, 2014 Cayman S, 2015 C7 and 2016 Cayman S

and my cost per month for all those cars is about 500 a month so far (the z4 really helps that # as for the 4 years I owned it, it only depreciated about 12k!!)


I live in a loft with one parking spot so there's that

plus 2 expensive cars is double the depreciation. Even if that's spread out over more years it's more than the depreciation from just one car in a short time frame... trust me I've tried to make it work :headbonk:

 

[bdub85]

BMW's have lost their souls.

 

[baege]

As a long time BMW fanatic,
Owned 07' 335i, 07' X3, 09' 335i, 09' M3, 11' Z4 35is, 11' M3 Coupe, 13' 335i, 13' M3 Coupe, 14' M5 Sedan and a 15' M4 Coupe..


GT350 > E92 M3. Ask me how I know.. 5 years of S65 and 100,000 miles under my belt on that motor. The S65 doesn't have any torque, it feels like a higher displacement Honda motor, sorry to say.

uh oh, I think you may have just sunk the m3 for me :doh:, although I obviously need to drive one myself since it's been about 7 years since I last did. I never liked the Honda torqueless wonders. I was cross shopping a prelude sh and mx6 back in the day and while the Honda looked better, handled better, had a nicer interior, it was gutless at low revs while the mx6 had a torquey v6 that sounded great...guess which one I chose

Sponsored